Renzatic on 9/6/2014 at 16:00
Quote Posted by faetal
That's another thing which has me confused is macolytes telling ome over the years that if I was serious about music production, I'd get a mac (usually ignoring that the software I've spent 15 years getting familiar with doesn't exist for mac). I've never had a single problem with computing power or usability or...well anything on the PCs I've built. Either I'm missing something or for some people, the extra bit of pizazz is really worth adding all of that extra cost. To reiterate what I said earlier, even if I had more disposable income, rather than funnelling that extra cash into what is essentially a really expensive PC with a different O/S, I'd stick it into savings if there wasn't something else I had in mind to buy. Why have silk when cotton gets the job done?
Even now that I'm slowly making the conversion towards being a Mac fan, I'm not gonna be one of those people who'll claim it's SOOOOO much better than a PC. I've never had a problem out of Windows. No viruses. No malware. Performance has always been pretty solid. I see a bluescreen maybe once a year at most. Hell, I barely even get Windows Rot anymore. My Win7 install lasted me for years without any slow down. It's always worked pretty well for me, and done exactly what I wanted it to do.
But I will say your cotton vs. silk analogy is pretty apt. Comparatively, the PC is more meat and potatoes. It gets the job done, but it's not what you'd call particularly fancy. With Macs, it's obvious that the software and hardware have been designed to complement each other. It's more streamlined, more tailored, and more thought has been put into the whole user experience. There's not as much overhead or extra steps required to do certain tasks. Things just flow more smoothly over in OSX.
...and yeah, you do pay for it. I've calculated the dreaded Apple Tax, and you're paying around $200-$300 more for one over an equivalent PC with the same quality hardware, and you have no low end cheap option.
A Mac is every bit a Luxury PC. It won't make you a better artist, programmer, or musician than you were on your Windows box, but doing those same things on a Mac is much more cushy and ergonomic. If you think it's worth spending some extra money for a little more ease of use and an overall better experience, then go for it. If not, then Windows has always and will always work fine, even if it is a little rougher around the edges.
As for the musician thing, that's not my scene, so I can't say anything for a fact, but I know a few people who swear by Logic Pro.
faetal on 10/6/2014 at 06:49
Also, you can upgrade a PC. With most macs, you can only really buy a new one, which for me means the tax would be even higher, cf my £1450 giving me 7 years of flawless computing, and another £300 will likely squeeze an extra year or 2 out of it.
Any time I want fancy, I'll go on holiday, or pick up a guitar.
Tying myself into apple would leave less money for other stuff. Plus, the amount of time I spend in an O/S is minimal. Most of my computer time is spent in applications and games. Most of what I do in the OS is just admin / housekeeping. Not sure I'd pay the Apple tax just so I can be blown away by how nice it is to tidy up folders and run a defrag.
faetal on 10/6/2014 at 06:51
I'd never take a laptop on stage either.
PigLick on 10/6/2014 at 07:04
good discussion, reminds me we havent had a good nuts'n'bolts music thread for ages. I am so far behind the 8ball when it comes to pc music, I am still using adobe audition 3 :p
Its about all my current pc can really handle, and even then I have real trouble with usb audio interfaces.
Renzatic on 10/6/2014 at 07:42
Quote Posted by faetal
Also, you can upgrade a PC. With most macs, you can only really buy a new one, which for me means the tax would be even higher, cf my £1450 giving me 7 years of flawless computing, and another £300 will likely squeeze an extra year or 2 out of it.
Any time I want fancy, I'll go on holiday, or pick up a guitar.
Tying myself into apple would leave less money for other stuff. Plus, the amount of time I spend in an O/S is minimal. Most of my computer time is spent in applications and games. Most of what I do in the OS is just admin / housekeeping. Not sure I'd pay the Apple tax just so I can be blown away by how nice it is to tidy up folders and run a defrag.
Well, you can't upgrade a laptop, and I barely even look at Apple when it comes to their desktop machines.
As for the rest...eh, it's your call. But just to throw in my two cents on the subject, it's not just about defragging and tidying up all your folders. Go look at Time Machine, Mission Control, or Quicklooks, and tell me you wouldn't kill to have something like them integrated so tightly and presented so well on Windows. Hell, I could see Time Machine being a potential ass saver many times over. And Mission Control? It is THE BEST way to manage all your open windows. Why the everliving holy hell fuck Windows doesn't have integrated virtual desktops by this point is totally beyond me.
And the trackpad. Coming from a purely PC environment, you won't even consider it. The trackpads there are those things you use when you don't have a mouse. They kinda suck. On a Mac? It's kinda hard to explain, but just imagine being able to do anything and everything just through a combination of your five fingers. Think of it like tablet gestures, but integrated into an actual, honest to god OS, and you'll be halfway there. It's so good, I'd almost consider it a selling point in and of itself.
Yeah, it sounds ridiculous, cuz...you know...trackpads. Big freaking whoop. But when you try it, you'll understand what I mean. When you hear about douchy Apple fans going on and on about not having to use a mouse because it slows them down, don't roll your eyes like I did. Douchy or not, they have a point. It's really that good.
Plus it's not like the computers are so much more expensive that you'll have to sacrifice a years worth of vacations or other toys to afford one. They do cost more, but not tremendously so. You can get a refurb MBA for about $800 these days, which isn't half bad. Plus there are ways you'll save a bit of money over a PC, or at least match an equivalent one in cost. Apple doesn't charge for OSX upgrades anymore. If you keep your comp for 4 years, you get 4 OS upgrades, which'll save you about $200-$300 or so doing the same with Windows (and you don't have to worry about entering any keys or activating your install, which is always a plus). And like I said before, you get better resale value with Apple stuff.
So yeah, you do spend more, but you are getting something for your money, and there are ways to offset the cost. I wouldn't dismiss them right off hand. Find one to play with, and toy around with the idea over a year or so. See what you think.
faetal on 10/6/2014 at 08:22
Well, I've just dished out money for a PC laptop and the whole thing is deal-broken by the fact that mac doesn't support Sonar. I've been using Cakewalk iterations for 15 years now, so jumping ship to Logic would require a huge amount of re-learning. Given that I have a pretty demanding career in research to contend with, I need to keep my music production as a hobby I can just jump into when I get spare time. I appreciate that macs really are a lot nicer, I'm not trying to come across as a typical "PCs are just better, fanboy" type of person, I just don't want to upgrade to a more expensive ecosystem when my current system is doing what I need it to. Not knowing what you are missing is indistinguishable from not missing anything. You've listed a lot of things which are nice / great to have, but nothing which I'd consider essential. Again, my current machine (not the laptop), after I've spent another £300 upgrading it, will likely be retired after 9 years of flawless service (assuming nothing goes wrong in the next 2 years), for the cost of £1750. I can't see me getting the same deal from macs. Also, I'm moving to a 1 desktop + 1 laptop overall configuration, so I'd like to have them running the same OS. Macs are great, but PCs really do for me and I don't need to increase my outgoings. Plus, I'm quite into gaming.
Aja on 10/6/2014 at 15:14
Quote Posted by faetal
I'd never take a laptop on stage either.
It's easier than hauling a pile of synths and samplers around. I'm working on an ambient project at the moment, and I've been using (
http://www.circularlabs.com) Mobius, which is basically a free software looper that's has features of pedals costing several hundred. I can run it as a VST and manipulate the loops after they're made, all without a cumbersome pedal chain that's liable to have grounding issues if every cable isn't in perfect shape.
faetal on 10/6/2014 at 16:07
Controller keyboard plus access virus C is all we'd ever need for live synths, minidisc does for the backing. If I ever got to the point where we had long enough sound check and big enough rigs to merit a bit more backing track finesse, I'd opt for an Alesis digital ADAT. Of all of the really bad technical hitch I've witnessed on stage with electronic acts, 9/10 have been laptop related. When I take something on stage, I want that something to be solely for the purpose of doing the thing it does. Laptops are too broad-purpose IMO. If someone could design a computer whose sole task was to run virtual instruments, I'd consider it. Too many other processes going on just increases the risk of something going wrong at a vital moment. Also, gigs are hot and humid - not the best computing environment.
Aja on 10/6/2014 at 16:28
I honestly can't recall ever seeing someone's laptop crash on stage. You just have to be aware of potential issues. My drummer uses one for a sampler he built with an arduino, running it into Max/MSP, and the only hitches we've ever had are with bad USB/firewire cables. Windows 7 and OSX are stable, and I've never had a DAW crash on me, either. Flakey VST plugins are another story, but if you're rehearsing at all, it'll be pretty apparent which ones to avoid. A lot of these plugins run independent of DAWs, too. Plus, with companies like Korg and Arturia, you can have a ton of great synth tones in one small machine. I can't afford a Minimoog or even an MS-20, but the software equivalents are pretty great.
faetal on 10/6/2014 at 16:57
Most of the problems I've seen have been related to heat / humidity and shock from vibrations through the stage. I like the sound of your drummer's custom made stuff though, that would be preferable to me than a machine built to do everything which just happens to be running music software.
I suppose a big disclaimer is that I did the majority of my gigging between 2003-2007, so the hardware / software might have moved on a bit since then.
