Language and adult topics

Pseudonymouse on 22/7/2001 at 23:13

I suppose they could make the option to disable gore cover profanity as well, although I didn't find the language in the original particularly gratuitous or offensive myself.

Chaos lord on 23/7/2001 at 00:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Huckeye:
Chaos Lord: I understand about Mood and ambience. And I am not proposing that the Mechs say darn it all to heck when someone escapes. But I am really curious if you would have noticed anything different if there was no language in deus Ex. Whats the difference in "he got away", "watch out, a guy in black", "hes some kind of mech", and "###$^&*(#*^^*" All of which were in Deus Ex. Did one not set the mood as well as the others did? If you think there is a difference, I wood like to know.

I think it's more close to real life to heck it all when something goes wrong. Please understand me correctly: I do not like extremly rude language (like in Kingpin for example). But when one's under fire usually he says "Damn" "heck" "fuck" etc and not "Oh, I lost him. That's a pity..."

Huckeye on 23/7/2001 at 03:47

Yes, but "I lost him" was a game quote. :) Thanks for answering. I am just having a really hard time seeing how the game could loose anything by losing that. Again looking at games like Thief, Mortal Kombat, Sanitarium (some of my favorite games with no language). and Deus Ex was not bad, but there were a few times I remember thinking, now why was that necesary?

Chaos lord on 23/7/2001 at 04:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Huckeye:
Yes, but "I lost him" was a game quote. :) Thanks for answering. I am just having a really hard time seeing how the game could loose anything by losing that. Again looking at games like Thief, Mortal Kombat, Sanitarium (some of my favorite games with no language). and Deus Ex was not bad, but there were a few times I remember thinking, now why was that necesary?

Well, it's a big world outside full with enourmous diversity of people- some of them have rude language, others not... I think that the games must look like "the outside" as much as possible, including the nasty/nice language... That's why I think such kind of stuff is adecuade for games like Deus Ex /which, IMO, is most close to RL of all games - even the immortal Thief :)/ I hope you got my point :) About the "10x for answering": you're welcome. We're trying to make a civilized dialogue after all :)
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BackDoorBandit on 24/7/2001 at 19:23

Huckeye,

If you can't run with the Big Dawgs, then keep your a** on the porch. I did not chastize you. I simply debated your post, whick IMO, is nonsense. Just as you have a free reign to post what your opinion is, I do too. You have now tried to make this personal, and if you wish to do so, we can do it over email. I do not get personal in these forums, maybe somewhat in Community Chat, but not in the forums I Moderate, I have to keep a certain level of respect in here. If you don't know how, or simply can't debate your point, or if you do debate your point but are not satisfied with someone elses comeback, deal with it, that's life. I debated your post because it's stupid to me...buy a console, that's what they're for. Believe me, look at the PS2 DX version, I bet they fixed the language up for ya in the conversion which will be out in a couple of months. These are computer games, aimeed at an older audience, that knows how to deal with real life better than a kiddie, that's why PC games are aimed more toward the adult market, and consoles are aimed at a younger crowd. This is all I have to say on this thread....I suggest you get tougher skin if you want to bring up controversial topics in the TTLG boards.

Retischal on 24/7/2001 at 20:12

Ah be fair BackDoorBandit, Huckeye did provide reasoning behind his argument. Which is that excluding language / sexual themes would lower the age restrictions applicable in certain countries (to the game). Thus giving the potential for a larger audience to buy it.

Yes, you are a moderator and I have no wish to "disrespect the forums" or you, but your reply did in parts seem -riled-

Quote:

Backdoorbandit
"Oh, and maybe I didn't make myself clear on this issue before as well...IT'S CALLED "ARTISTIC FREEDOM". BTW, Huckeye, you deeply offended me by posting this nonsense. You need to not post anything with nonsense again so that you have a higher fan base and more people read your threads "

Now whilst I did not particularly object - or notice the aspects that Huckeye was considering.. and also object to MARKETING forcing people to tone down ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCTS for the sake of CASH, Huckeye's point was reasonable.

Quote:

BackDoorBandit

"I did not chastize you. I simply debated your post, whick IMO, is nonsense. Just as you have a free reign to post what your opinion is, I do too. You have now tried to make this personal"

In my interpretation of the earlier BDB quote, your calls of being offended by it imply that you (BDB) has taken this personaly, it also APPEARS to IMPLY a threat / warning that if he states a similar opinion again he will be banned for trying to get a "higher fan base".

-Anyway, BDB, I hope that you understand my 3rd Persons interpretation of how your posts could be interpreted differently to the way you may have intended them to be read.

Huckeye on 24/7/2001 at 21:38

actually Retischal,

my reasoning for not wanting language/adult content is because I don't think it belongs in games. I am not the only person who feels this way, maybe in this forum I am, but not by any means in the world.

I do also think that it is a marketing plus to be able to sell the game to more people by removing those things. Marketing was more of a result to the action rather than the action itself. And while I do think that sales are a valid argument, It is not my own personal argument. If a Deus Ex staff member were reading this thread I would just want them to see an alternative (I.e. a cleaner game to one crowd). By giving that to them (the action) Deus Ex could benefit from a larger fan base. Which means more people to the forums, more people to buy the game, more people to possibly buy thief 3 (the result). I want more fans as much as IonStorm does since that will decide if there will be a deus ex expansion or a 3rd installment. But I was not ultimately arguing for someone to use politics to dictate which games go to the public and how (if thats what it sounded like).

I cannot see how by removing the language that anyone suffers. to me that is a win win situation for the fans and for the company. But apparently some people feel that it would and I would like to know why. Programmers do not get the artistic freedom that everyone thinks they get. for example the first deus ex did not have the option to play the game as a female even though the plans were to have that option. No one screamed about being stripped of artistic freedom then, they did what they had to do to make a good game. I think in the same way, some of the wording could be changed (since I doubt the level designers write the script anyway) and a great game that EVERYONE enjoys could be a reslult. (my argument :))

My question is, honestly, would you notice if you were in a bad part of town, and there was no language? I am not asking if it fits the mood, and I am not assuming that Mechs are going to be saying things like "gee willikers". I just want to know if a highly polished atmospher like we all know IonStorm can create needs a four letter word here and there to help create something.

If you would find yourself thinking, "this isn't right, there needs to be more cursing before I can enjoy this game" I would like to know why

Thanks for the 3rd party input <IMG SRC="thumb.gif" border="0">

green eyed liar on 26/7/2001 at 07:57

Well, it increases the player's immersion for one thing. Deus Ex 2's characters and dialogue should be as believable as possible (within the parameters of the game's reality) -- and real people don't talk like the actors in an American 1950's-era PSA; in real life there's usually a lot more swearing. Face it: Soldiers have potty mouths, so do pimps and prostitutes and gangsters and people in crisis situations (Dunno how true it is, but I remember reading somewhere that the most common last word recorded before a crash on airplanes' black box flight recorders is “shit”). To totally omit any “bad” language and sexuality from the game would leave a hole that would be pretty damned obvious, and would make suspending disbelief that much harder (unless there was some sort of in-game explanation for the characters' odd behavior -Eric Cartman-esque head-implanted V-chips for instance).

As far as drawing a larger audience goes, I'd rather play a game that's realistic and true to its creators' vision than one that's toned down and washed out to appeal to the masses (there are plenty of those already, if you go for that sort of thing) ‘cause things that appeal to the masses tend to suck. They tend to be completely inoffensive and bland and dumbed-down and boring and a whole lot of other stuff that I don't want Deus Ex 2 to be. I mean, imagine watching The Godfather or something if it were watered down enough to not offend anyone. It would be laughable, compared to the original. You don't sell out and put pants on Michelangelo's David, even if by leaving him nude you lose the prude segment of the audience (stupid analogy, I know).

rhalibus on 26/7/2001 at 18:13

We used to see movie executives making a director censor an NC-17 movie so it will get an R rating; now we're seeing them censor R movies to give them a PG-13 rating--all because they want to maximize profits...

One of the biggest achievments of Deus Ex was the sense of immersion: the feeling that you could do _anything_. A large part of this immersion dealt with the ability to shoot just about anyone; sometimes with consequences. You don't _have_ to shoot anyone--indeed I hope the path of non-violence is beefed up as a real alternative in DX2--but the choice is there, in any case. I think removing this ability would destroy one of the main innovations of Deus Ex and hurt the game's fan base. However, as I've posted before I do think there should be more rewards for a successful stealth approach...

nethawk on 1/8/2001 at 10:08

hee hee - I can see it now:

Current version of Deus Ex: JC Denton: "Hey Dickhead - step away from the module or I'm gonna give you another body orifice with my Gep gun!!!"

Guard: "Eat shit and die pig - take this!!!"

or...

Politically correct version of Deus Ex: JC Denton: "Why hello sir, would you please kindly step aside from that generator module? I may have to employ force if you don't."

Guard: "Oh - oh my goodness poodness - you scared the living daylights out of me sir - I'm sorry. Here you go...do what you like with this device. I'll simply go downstairs and make myself a hot cup of coffee. Here - please take my pistol, three bio electric cells, sniper rifle, flamethrower, and complete set of nanokeys as well. Have a nice day..."

Yeah right. Easy choice. I'll take number one. And I'd gladly take more people doinking the hell out of their chicks in sleazy hotel rooms as well in the next version of Deus Ex. Keep it raw, keep it intense, and keep it real. Don't "disneyfy" it ;) :cool: