SD on 3/5/2008 at 11:48
You do seem to be epically failing to realise that the British "left" is getting a kicking because they are abandoning their left-wing principles. Abolishment of the 10p income tax rate for lower earners was the final kick in the teeth for many.
jay pettitt on 3/5/2008 at 11:52
Quote Posted by Jennie&Tim
Pardon my ignorance please, do Brits vote for individual people or for parties?
We vote for parties made up of individual people - specifically we tend to vote for a Member of Parliament to represent us at the big house, most MPs are allied to one of the parties, there are independent MPs from time to time. The parties benefit from having more of their MPs elected on to 'seats'. The London Mayor post was also up for grabs yesterday as well as some local elections, which is obviously more a job for an individual person - the main parties do field a candidate; this time round the Conservative bod won.
Quote Posted by fragony
Good for brittain socialists are the scum of the earth
You really don't know what you're talking about do you.
The UK's Labour Party have not been a socialist party for as long as I can remember - certainly not since you were in nappies. Currently you can barely shove a cigarette paper between Labour and the Conservatives here in terms of position and policy on anything - both are Thatcherism Lite. If anything Labour can probably be thought of as the counterpart of the French Conservative Party, while the British Conservative Party, increasingly, have rather more to say about social politics - which is why people are jumping ship at the moment. The UK has done the individualism thing to death and while we've all got big plasma Televisions, we're also rather suffering from a lack of social politic at the moment; there's a lot of niggling youth crime, anti-social behaviour, angst over immigration (immigration - which you get all excited over if I remember - is a social politics issue) yadda yadda yadda and some of our core social infrastructure is suffering neglect - there's a worrying lack of prison places to keep our kids and black people in for example.
Thanks for your contribution though.
Fragony on 3/5/2008 at 11:57
These few die-hard commies perhaps. For the rest, what's left for the left nothing to fight for anymore, little more then looking for the highest building and demanding an additional floor. All I hear are fashion-idealists whining for our sins for some club-credits with the pc-brigades, people aren't crazy.
^-that was directed at SD
jay pettitt on 3/5/2008 at 12:31
Regardless of who you're directing that at, you're completely and utterly wrong. A party that, for example, is prepared to stick it to the precious free-market lobbyists and stop closing local post offices will win the next general election because people here recognise that those kind of services provide a social value that Reaganite/Thatcherist policies of the 'right' aren't able or willing to deliver on. That's what Middle England is looking for - the next UK government will be more socially aware than our current one, not less.
SD on 3/5/2008 at 12:48
Labour's closure of the post offices represents a vile betrayal of the ordinary man, but even more appalling is the fact that so many Labour MPs actively campaigned against closures of post offices in their own areas - the very closures that they'd pushed through Parliament! In some cases, Labour MPs were picketing against legislation they had personally drafted.
Pretty sums up this horrible bunch of cynical corrupt illiberal lying cunts to a T. Even the Tories would be preferable to them.
DaBeast on 3/5/2008 at 13:27
Quote Posted by SD
That isn't a pic of my dad - it's the cretin he's trying to replace :weird:
My mistake, an easy one to make imo (provided you skip most of the text in that thing), he does have a certain SD look about him.
jay pettitt on 3/5/2008 at 13:57
But you can see no thighs in that photo?
SubJeff on 3/5/2008 at 17:10
How did I know SD was going to dislike the abolishing of the 10p tax rate? The majority of people are better off and the few people who are worse off are worse off by what, £3 a week? They spend 10 times that on cigarettes a week! AND they are going to get concessions now. Moaning about very little tbh. Entire public sectors are essentially getting pay cuts, of more than £3/week, because pay increases are less than inflation and a few whiners are what makes the news. Pah! Aren't these the same people that get the
same access to the NHS as everyone else despite contributing much less and despite being about 10x as likely to use it! Bah!
Quote Posted by SD
Labour's closure of the post offices represents a vile betrayal of the ordinary man, but even more appalling is the fact that so many Labour MPs actively campaigned against closures of post offices in their own areas - the very closures that they'd pushed through Parliament! In some cases, Labour MPs were picketing against legislation
they had personally drafted.
Examples please. I know what you are referring to but you are being very, very Daily Mail about it. Afaik those MPs voted for the plan, but against the closures in their own areas because the broadly agree with the plan but not necessarily how and where it has been implemented.
Anyway, I'm not out to defend Labour because they are a ridiculous bunch and the Post Office closures are a nonsense I cannot understand. The Tories are just a no-no, but there was no way I was going to vote for that new Lib Dem tax band craziness though. If they sort their ideas out on finances I might just vote for them next election.
mopgoblin on 3/5/2008 at 21:24
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Pah! Aren't these the same people that get the
same access to the NHS as everyone else despite contributing much less and despite being about 10x as likely to use it! Bah!
You almost sound like you're <em>jealous</em> here. If the working class get such a great deal, why haven't you found yourself a low-wage job?
SD on 3/5/2008 at 21:58
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
How did I know SD was going to dislike the abolishing of the 10p tax rate? The majority of people are better off and the few people who are worse off are worse off by what, £3 a week? They spend 10 times that on cigarettes a week!
What an unbelievably crass statement! The abolition of the 10p band has hurt more than 5 MILLION people who earn less than £18,000 a year, and for you to make such generalisations about them is classist and ignorant. I am one of those who earns below 18 grand, and I can assure you, I don't spend a penny on tobacco - not, of course, that it is any business of yours what people spend their hard-earned cash on.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Entire public sectors are essentially getting pay cuts, of more than £3/week, because pay increases are less than inflation and a few whiners are what makes the news.
Yes, I am one of those public sector workers who is in line for a below inflation pay increase, something less than 2%. I'm being shafted left, right and centre - if I was one of the poor unfortunates who didn't escape Labour's £3,000 a year tax on students, I'd be even more screwed.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Examples please. I know what you are referring to but you are being very, very Daily Mail about it. Afaik those MPs voted for the plan, but against the closures in their own areas because the broadly agree with the plan but not necessarily how and where it has been implemented.
One third of Gordon Brown's cabinet have protested the closure of Post Offices in their area ((
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1580130/Ministers-accused-of-post-office-hypocrisy.html) source). Astonishing.
Offhand, I don't know who drafted the Post Office bill, but (
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2006/12/ivan-lewis-mp-hypocrite-of-year.html) here's an example of a Labour MP campaigning against NHS cuts that he was personally responsible for.
These people are NIMBYs, nothing more, nothing less. They are hypocrites of the highest order who are happy to support cuts nationwide, but baulk at the idea when it will cost them votes locally. It's a level of cynicism that almost has one admiring their cheek.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Anyway, I'm not out to defend Labour because they are a ridiculous bunch and the Post Office closures are a nonsense I cannot understand.
The rationale behind it is that the Post Office is haemmoraging money and needs to close its least profitable branches. In practice, it's incredibly short-sighted - each Post Office saves local businesses £270,000 annually - and does not take into account those people with mobility problems who will now have to travel. And for some reason, they've been closing lots of profitable branches too.
This is without touching on the fact that the only reason Post Offices are losing so much money is because Labour took a huge tranche of their revenue away from them by insisting that pensions and benefits get paid straight into bank accounts rather than over-the-counter. The result being that Post Offices lose out on commission and get less people through the doors.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
The Tories are just a no-no, but there was no way I was going to vote for that new Lib Dem tax band craziness though. If they sort their ideas out on finances I might just vote for them next election.
What don't you like about our tax plans (the major planks of which, off-hand, I recall involve simplifying the tax code, knocking 4p off the basic rate and offsetting it with green taxes)?
