SD on 25/11/2021 at 00:42
I'm certainly hoping that people read the things I have actually written rather than the various mischaracterisations of it.
You know things have entered bizarro world when supporting the verdict of a jury of 12 people who heard every shred of evidence in the case can be described as a "bad faith right-wing position".
This is the problem when people inhabit echo chambers, whether they be echo chambers of the left or echo chambers of the right.
Nicker on 25/11/2021 at 01:45
Sorry but which American city was "burned to the ground" SD?
I don't blame the jury. The charge should have been for a negligent manslaughter or some lesser offense and let's face it, they had limited options once the judge started shilling for the defense.
The jury heard a lot of evidence which the judge filtered to match his narrative. This proceeding screamed mistrial from day one.
june gloom on 25/11/2021 at 03:09
I did read what you said, SD. It's all a bunch of right-wing talking points, empty gotchas and whataboutism. Pure and utter sophistry.
Like, your literal first post in this thread was "sanity prevails" -- because a minor who crossed state lines with weaponry in tow -- and for what purpose?? -- murdered someone, and got away with it because the judge and prosecutors threw the case.
In what world is that anything other than a right-wing reaction?
SD on 25/11/2021 at 03:51
I do think it's funny to be accused of sophistry by someone spreading falsehoods.
We know the weapon never crossed state lines, and we know Rittenhouse travelled to Kenosha the day before the shootings for his job. These are facts established in court.
As with the "drove hundreds of miles to disrupt a rally" claim from Jason Moyer earlier in the thread, people here are making statements which aren't in the same ballpark as the truth.
Either people are lying, or they're badly informed. Neither is particularly conducive to productive discussion.
Nicker on 25/11/2021 at 04:04
Again, please. Which US city was "burned to the ground" by protestors?
Draxil on 25/11/2021 at 04:14
Quote Posted by Starker
The shooter partying with Proud Boys and taunting people by flashing a white power symbol afterwards for example shows that he didn't really feel remorse about what he did. Beating up a girl is just a shitty thing to do and I posted it in this thread because it seemed noteworthy that the guy was seeking out trouble already before the incident.
Also, the BLM protests don't happen because black people just want to riot. They happen because there's a long-perceived injustice, and based on statistics and how police have treated black people in the US, this belief seems to be completely justified. But oh no, why doesn't anyone think about the insurance companies' profit margins! You're wringing your hands about the few instances where there's property damage, but the overwhelming amount of protests have happened all over the country without any property damage.
The BLM protests have widely been utilized and co-opted as an excuse for thuggery, looting, violence directed at the communities the movement is protesting for. Why is it so hard for you to realize that and to condemn it, rather than excuse rank criminal acts performed in the name of "social justice". The Uptown district of Kenosha was by far the most damaged area of the city, and it is where the majority of the black population lives. (
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/02/908605928/kenosha-protests-violence-expose-racial-disparities-among-the-worst-in-the-count) NPR reports that mom and pop eateries and shops were destroyed and unlikely to re-open. Insurance companies are frequently denying their claims because they weren't covered for terrorism-related damages to their properties. I don't give a shit about insurance companies' profit margins, and you apparently don't give a shit about minority communities.
40% of small business in this country don't have insurance at all, and 75% of businesses in this country are under-insured by 40%. Minority small business owners have seen their livelihood and futures disappear overnight due to these riots. A quick google search brought up stories of dozenss of minority owned business that were destroyed during the riots in Minneapolis, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Kenosha, St. Paul, L.A., and D.C. In addition to the physical damage done to these communities by rioters, looters, and arsonists (many of them traveling to these locales as the opportunity arises), the economic futures of these areas are hurt by the wariness of investors to put money into these communities.
Quote:
He didn't happen to be in that place by accident. He chose to go to this protest and larp as a militia or police or security guard or whatever he thought he was completely unbidden and prance around with a weapon that he had to have someone buy for him. If he hadn't done that, none of this would have happened. His first victim was a protester who was following him and acting erratically and his next victims thought that he was an active shooter fleeing the scene and tried to stop him, like your NRA always suggests people do.
Rittenhouse was an idiot for being there, an idiot for being armed, and an idiot period. "None of this would have happened" can go back a long way. It wouldn't have happened if Rittenhouse wasn't a snot-nosed wannabe that played too much Call of Duty. It wouldn't have happened if the Democratic qovernor had done more to quell disorder, instead of worrying about the optics and leaving it to a small-town police force and a few National Guardsman. It wouldn't have happened if Rosenbaum hadn't tried to ambush Rittenhouse. It wouldn't have happened if Jacob Blake hadn't violently resisted arrest while violating a restraining order against the woman he physically and sexually abused. And it wouldn't have happened if BLM could keep the violent and opportunistic Antifa-types, the angry white anarchists and thugs, out of their movement. Rosenbaum was one of opportunistic thugs that utilized the protests for his own gain. He had already engaged in arson that night and was agitating for violence. He got it. He wasn't murdered, he wasn't a victim, he wasn't a hero--he was a thug that got his dumb ass killed while engaged in thuggery. Yes, he deserved it. I do find it humorous that, with all his street-cred and bad-ass bravado, he got himself killed by a 17 year old larper named Kyle. That's karma.
Nicker on 25/11/2021 at 05:11
The plight of small business is more about the systemic inequity enforced by the monopoly holders, the modern robber barons, than any single type of incident. Small independents often totter on the margins, even during good times. Any disturbance or disruption may push them into insolvency, fire, flood, earthquakes, civil unrest, war.
Starker on 25/11/2021 at 07:41
How ironic to link to an article about massive inequality in black neighbourhoods and complain about BLM thuggery at the same time. Yeah, right, you are so concerned for minorities. Your power level is showing, Draxil.
Quote:
(
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/02/908605928/kenosha-protests-violence-expose-racial-disparities-among-the-worst-in-the-count)
The median Black household in the Milwaukee area earns just 44% of the median white household. Among the nation's largest metro areas, Milwaukee has the second-lowest Black home ownership rate. School segregation in the Milwaukee area, measured by how likely Black children are to attend a school where students are 90% non-white, is essentially unchanged since 1965. A white high school dropout has about the same likelihood of having a job as Black high school graduate.
Here in Kenosha, a third of Black residents live below the poverty line, while just 13% of white residents do. A Black worker in Kenosha earns about half that which a white worker earns.
Yeah, I wonder where the anger is coming from in black communities... Could it have anything to do with... inequality, continued lack of justice?
As for Antifa, despite the right-wing media's attempts to scaremonger, on the whole they are still people who are primarily opposing Nazis, who I remind you were bold enough to hold rallies right out in the open to "unite the right" not that long ago. One of the reasons they went back to underground are people who opposed them on the streets and off the streets. I've listened to plenty of those shitheads complain how Antifa is hounding them and making it difficult for them to do their events and stay on mainstream platforms.
Meanwhile, right-wing lone wolf terrorists go on shooting sprees, often targeting minorities. Gangs like Proud Boys seek out violence in the streets. Militias plan to kidnap and put on trial Democratic governors. Insurrectionists ransack the Capitol while armed people seek to kill the speaker of the House and the vice president. But oh, the real problem is a handful of businesses burned down, (most of whom get reimbursed by the insurance), compared to hundreds and hundreds of protests where it didn't happen.
faetal on 25/11/2021 at 10:44
Quote Posted by SD
... this white power symbol does appear to be an epidemic... it's even spreading to Hollywood stars :eek:
And the award from most transparent bad faith argument of 2021 goes to this guy.
demagogue on 25/11/2021 at 12:57
The whole thing is intentionally designed as a troll to exactly provoke SD's reaction.
Way to be a neo-nazi heel, Stronts.
As for the case, there's a lot I could say. The job of a good lawyer is to accurately predict the outcome of cases, and this outcome was reasonably predictable. You have to distinguish claiming the decision was illegal or corrupt (which is a battle I don't think would win) vs. thinking it fairly upheld the the law, but the law itself is an ass (which has a better shot of hitting its mark).
But the most general thing I was thinking, which I'm seeing make the rounds more now after people have processed it a bit ... well, we have a saying "bad cases make bad law". The basic punchline is, if you want to talk about race relations or social justice in the US (or anywhere), it's not a good idea to talk about it from the platform of individual cases, since the issues at stake often aren't very representative of the actual problems or issues facing most of whatever group you worry about. It'd be better if you read a bunch of white papers from think tanks and got caught up on the case law and statistics and legislative history, etc., etc. There are things to talk about with this case, but they're not the things most worth talking about in the grand scheme of things when you want to care about the grand scheme of things.
