Karaski: What Goes Up... Slavic-Steampunk RPG Unraveling a Plot Onboard an Airship!

Yakoob on 4/9/2015 at 07:18

Thanks for the encouragement! Yea, the game has its flaws, but I do think there is something decent there. It is a jack-of-all-trades and I admit it does not really excel at one thing particular, but I tried to make most aspects enjoyable and bring in some variety, especially after Postmortem. That's why I have such a hard time nailing down the pitch - like PigLick said it doesn't fall into just one genre.

Dont give players expectations. is kind of interesting. Someone on TigSource said the text on the video was heavy-handed and unnecesary. So I am considering scrapping all the captions save maybe for few establishing the premise and letting the footage showcase stuff like sneaking, breaking in, getting caught, etc. Show don't tell.

It's hard to explain the player-driven story stuff too; as you point out I think it is a unique selling point, but any way I phrase it just comes off as "any other adventure game ever", especially in post Walking Dead scene. Got any ideas how I can communicate that better in a few words?

Oh and agreed with Thirith + Al_B about Metroidvanian - I think you're right it attracts the wrong crowd that will leave disappointed.

Big thanks for feedback - I realized I really dont know how to pitch this, and so your feedback is immensly useful. Really, really I appreciate you guys :)

Al_B on 5/9/2015 at 20:43

Quote Posted by Yakoob

It's hard to explain the player-driven story stuff too; as you point out I think it is a unique selling point, but any way I phrase it just comes off as "any other adventure game ever", especially in post Walking Dead scene. Got any ideas how I can communicate that better in a few words?

"The fate of those on board depend on you - the choice is yours, as are the consequences..."

I think it's important that it's not portrayed as an arbitrary decision. When Poirot gathered people together at the end of a murder mystery he wasn't doing it to point the finger at a random person - he had a reason to blame the guilty party. The same with your game, the player has a reason to choose the guilty party and it's only by playing the game that they can make an opinion about who is responsible.

Yakoob on 5/9/2015 at 22:24

But that's my beef - "The fate of those on board depend on you - the choice is yours, as are the consequences..." sounds like it describes virtually any advebture game these days. Even the likes of GTA technically fall under that. So I don't think it makes it stand out.

Tbh for a while I've now been starting to think I'm overselling it and my game really isn't as innovative in this regard as I like to think it is :x Maybe it really is just another somewhat average story driven adventure?

Thirith on 6/9/2015 at 09:05

It is fairly innovative in that you don't just determine what happens in the present (and there isn't all that much of that on a moment-by-moment basis, at least compared to other games with that feature), you determine what has happened that led to the situation. At the same time, I'm not sure how this is best turned into a Unique Selling Point; at the very least I wouldn't make it too explicit, because that's likely to make people imagine and even expect something concrete, which is rarely good. "Player-driven storytelling - YOU write the story, both past and future" does a pretty good job of alluding to this freedom, I think.

The other thing is also that innovation, real innovation, doesn't make for good advertising copy - because innovation is one of those buzzwords. If a preview were to stress the ways in which your game is original, that's one thing, but I think it's almost impossible to credibly advertise originality in a direct way. You have to be able to show it, which is hard if that originality isn't an easily demonstrated concept (e.g. portals!), or you have to have someone else talk about it, but praising it yourself will be dismissed as mere PR talk.

henke on 7/9/2015 at 11:42

Well I don't know what fulcrum means, so not the first one.

Quote Posted by Yakoob

* You are one of 5 suspects of a sabotage... you decide who the culprit is!
* Player-driven storytelling - YOU write the story, both past and future

Agh, stop pulling back the curtain on the game mechanics! I'd like the first one tho, if it was rephrased as something like "You are one of 5 suspects of a sabotage... find the real culprit!"

Quote Posted by Yakoob

* Break into passenger rooms when no one's looking
* Look for clues... or steal money and booze!
* Getting caught raises your suspicion, and others may turn on you
* Stealth and sneak to avoid guards and passengers
* Replayability - different playthroughs and choices can lead to different experiences

These I generally like.

Yakoob on 7/9/2015 at 22:29

@ Thirith - I like the one-sentence description you got there, thanks. That's actually what I am struggling with now, a brief sentence I can put in an email subject or a forum title that instantly makes people interested. I've tried several iterations so far and it's not been working too well.

So here's a few alternate takes that kinda try different approaches. Would appreciate thoughts as well:

1) Freeform detective adventure where YOU decide if you're the saboteur onboard a damaged 1920s Slavic Airship!
2) Reverse “who's done it” adventure where you decide who sabotaged the 1920s Slavic Airship
Break into cabins, interrogate suspects and write a unique detective mystery onboard a sabotaged 1920s Slavic Airship!
3) Play by the books or break all the rules as you write your own unique detective mystery onboard a sabotaged 1920s Slavic Airship!
4) Your decisions echo through the backstories of the passengers onboard sabotaged 1920s Airship, ultimately devising their grisly destinies.

Thanks again for being a great feedback and spring board yet again :)

Quote Posted by henke

Agh, stop pulling back the curtain on the game mechanics!

Well, I have for the first 1.5 years of developing and publicizing the game, and it failed to attract any attention :/ so I've been scrambling to redo the pitch and find a way to "grab" people, and I don't think I can do it solely on gameplay alone (because, as you guys pointed, it's not elaborate enough and would probably leave people disappointed if they expected Deus Ex depth)

henke on 8/9/2015 at 04:47

It's not attracting much attention because a billion other good games came out this year and a billion more are on the way. But once Karaski is out, and it's sitting in the Steam store with a Positive rating (maybe even Very Positive, cross fingers), people who are into this kinda thing will play it! And make youtube videos and tell their friends. The people are craving more indie Deus Ex Lites I tell ya! Neon Struct did pretty well I think, and that one doesn't even have any fancy unorthodox narrative mechanics to wave around.

Thirith on 8/9/2015 at 04:58

I like 3 best, although I might cut it down to just the second half: "... write a unique detective mystery onboard a sabotaged 1920s Slavic Airship!" "Play by the book or break all the rules..." sounds fine enough, but I'm not sure which book or which rules you'd be talking about, since breaking into rooms and the like are all par for the course in computer games.

1, 2 and 4 sound to me like they're trying too hard to be descriptive, though especially with 1 and 2 I suspect they may only really make sense for people who have already played the game. I'd agree with henke here that you tend to overexplain, and IMO that rarely makes for effective PR. Your tagline needs to be something that hooks people, not something that explains everything that Karaski is. The more you try the latter, the more I think you'll end up with a cumbersome phrase that won't attract.

Anyway, I've just seen that henke has written a reply, and I agree with him 100%. (Not just because he tends to hit me when we play together.)

heywood on 8/9/2015 at 19:04

I've been lurking this thread from the beginning but I haven't played your game, so take this opinion with a grain of salt. I generally agree with the others that trying to make a descriptive one-liner is tricky and risky. Risky in that some people might read something into it that gives them the wrong expectations, or puts them off, or gives away too much. I also agree with Henke that your game isn't getting much attention because it's a very crowded market, not because you haven't found the ideal pitch line. If it's a good game, the players and reviewers will sell it better than any pitch line.

I think giving people an indication of the basic plot setup is good. You're on an airship that has been sabotaged and it's up to you to discover the culprit and determine the fate of the passengers. It's also good to communicate that the gameplay is fairly freeform with plenty of dialogue, exploration, and stealth. And it's OK to hint that the story is interactive and there are plot consequences for your actions. But I would leave it at that. I may have the wrong idea because I haven't played it, but I'm assuming that the player-driven story is the game's main "hook" and it might be better to leave that to be part of the mystery. If I were playing the game thinking there is a conspiracy plot that I have to figure out, without knowing until later that the story is being determined by my actions, that it would be cool twist. If I knew that before even starting the game, then I would probably be choosing actions based on what I want the outcome to be rather than role playing it freely. And I might be disappointed if I didn't get the outcome I was expecting.

Also, I would avoid making it sound like a one-person murder mystery game. I think that will narrow your audience. I also don't think it's important to let people know this is a <em>1920s Slavic</em> airship. An airship is good enough. The Slavic theme is important to you, but probably not to most of your players.

Are you certain you need a single Twitter-length tag line for your pitch? This would be so much easier if you were trying to distill this into a 50 word blurb, or even a 30 word blurb.

Yakoob on 12/9/2015 at 02:01

Quote Posted by henke

It's not attracting much attention because a billion other good games came out this year and a billion more are on the way.

You're definitely right on that part, and coincidentially Total Biscuit just made a (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4F-zdpFb9I) video about Steam indie market saturation and how merely getting a game out is no longer guarantee of success.

You say "once Karaski is out, and it's sitting in the Steam " but at this point I'm not sure if that's a certain; our first Greenlight attempt did not go well (albeit most criticism stemmed from graphics), so all the marketing work I'm doing is exactly so we can even get on greenlight. Hopefully you are right that post-launch it will get some attention, but statistically... yea :/

Quote:

I'd agree with henke here that you tend to overexplain,

Yea a few people are pointing the same thing and I think you're all right. I'm trying to cram too much into it; I should probably just lay out the simple premise and hook, and leave rest to imagination (or checking our website/trailer etc.)

Quote Posted by heywood

Are you certain you need a single Twitter-length tag line for your pitch? This would be so much easier if you were trying to distill this into a 50 word blurb, or even a 30 word blurb.

Yes. For example, i need it as the email subject when contacting press or youtubers. Many of these guys get 100+ emails daily, so the right subject can be the difference between opening the email or deleting :/

-------

Taking your feedback in and a step back, here's another round. Trying to be less feature-heavy and more just laying out the premise/hook. I think it comes off a bit plain, but let me know if I'm on the right track!

1] Comrade, welcome aboard the world's first Airship heading to its impending doom! Uncover the secrets of the passengers in an open-ended adventure.
2] Comrade! Uncover the secrets of your fellow passengers aboard world's first Airship before we all meet our inevitable doom.
3] Dark plot unfolds onboard a 1920s Slavic Airship and the passengers all have hidden agendas. Uncover their secrets and write the conclusion of their final hours.
4] Comrade! The Glorious Commonwealth's first Airship has been compromised! Uncover what the passengers are hiding and write the grisly conclusion of its final hours in an open-ended, first-person adventure. Dziekujemy!

---------------------------------------------------

Oh and in other, slightly more positive news, I just found out our game is one of the 15 finalists in the Polish Indie Game Festival & competition "Pixel Heaven" :D :D

Inline Image:

http://unboundcreations.com/images/karaski/promo/karaski-pixel-heaven-finalist.jpg

I'm not holding my breath given the competition (Ethan Crater holla) but hey, it's still a distinction. And it pushed me to do an impromptu trip to Poland to attend and visit my gramps again :P

I know we got a few Polaks here, anyone attending it by any chance? Would love to meet you in person!