chris the cynic on 25/8/2003 at 00:57
I find the plot of Deus Ex to be the most engaging part, thus multi player is a bit off to me, now if you could have it be a team of agents going through the game that would make more sense.
BlackCapedManX on 25/8/2003 at 02:51
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Originally posted by Deuce[3][tBoT] I played the single player through in a week...really interesting and fascinating, probably the best sp I've played. Before that I had played the DX Multiplayer for 1½ years...that's DX at its best, seriously. It's not easily comparable to the Single player because your opponents are real individuals who use master tactics and can variate beyond AI, it's something you need to experience yourself.
Some people say that it's stupid because you can't use stealth tactics and that DX doesn't apply well as a multiplayer game etc...but that's just 'noob' talk by people who haven't played the game long enough to get some basic skill and see the depth of the gameplay.
DXMP today suffers from lack of good servers...but there are still people who keep playing after 3 years. If you want to experience Deus Ex at its highest level...try the multiplayer and give it some time...2 weeks should be enough to learn the basics, after that the genius of it only gradually begins to unravel before you. I believe that not even the makers of this game completely understand the potential that it has. Have you played multiplayer for other games? Like Half Life or Red Faction? DXMP suffers heavily when you consider a few things. DX is a plot driven game, not a combat driven game. The weapons are in no way balanced correctly for multiplayer (there are some adjustments from SP, but it's not alltogether too great). It's very complicated, while multiplayer in DX allows for hundreds of ways to slaughter your opponents, it's still way to complicated a manner for slaughter. The combat itself is jerky, from the animations to things like bullet damage, you really have to consider the fact that when the game was made, it didn't take fighting as an important concept, most of the game is based on stealth, and even though you can go in guns blazing, it's a fairly difficult thing to pull off in the manner that you can in games like Half Life. I second chris' motion that a co-op would be nice, but most of DX is designed around working against AI, not a bunch of people on par with your abilities. Plus sniping is a bitch in MP:nono:
Maybe giving DXMP time makes it a better experience, but when you consider that you can jump into MP for other games with nothing more than your FPS skills makes them superior in that aspect. DXMP is a FPS style of gaming, DX the game is
not FPS. It may be first person, but it is not in the genre of FPS. Maybe FPRPG....
Anyway, I do have a question though, by your post am I right to assume that you played DXMp for a year and a half,
before playing SP? Like you never played SP until you'd played MP?
chris the cynic on 25/8/2003 at 04:04
This might sound strange, but let me explain myself before you reject the idea.
I think that Deus Ex MP should be like a Resident Evil (also known as Biohazard) game that is coming out called Outbreak.
(Sound blasphemous doesn't it?)
The game will allow up to four people to play through each choosing one of 8 characters obviously they will have dialogue (what little there is in RE games) for all of the characters. All 8 will play through the game, those not chosen being controlled by the AI. The game will feature cooperation, and even a lack there of.
For Deus Ex the amount of work that would have to go into such a venture would likely be ungodly, different dialogue for each character, different lines if one of the other characters has talked to an NPC before you and of course there may be different lines for which and how many playable characters have spoken to said NPC.
But it would make sense, you would still get the plot and all. Maybe take another thing from the (RE) game into account and allow a player to work against his fellow PCs (for example if you left UNATCO and the other players didn't maybe their mission would be to hunt you down.)
If anyone ever played Dark Forces (the first game in the Jed Knight series) you might have noticed a lack of Multi Player, they said this was because it wouldn't make sense for a bunch of agents to get together and kill each other. The same is true for Deus Ex, in a game based so firmly in reality that they don't let one thing (count them-zero) go into the game that isn't possible, why have a multi player in which varied people get together in a miraculously closed off place with lots of guns and kill each other?
The dark forces people put forward the idea that it might be that a team of agents would take on missions, I would have liked to see them implement that multiplayer, but they never did. That is the kind of thing that should be in Deus Ex.
I'm ranting and repetitive, I'll be silent now.
Deuce[3][tBoT] on 25/8/2003 at 06:17
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BlackCapeManX wrote:Have you played multiplayer for other games? Like Half Life or Red Faction?
The Mp's I have played (shooters):
Deus Ex
Counter-strike
Soldier of Fortune 2
Red faction
Ghost Recon
TacticalOps
Unreal tournament
Unreal tournament 2003
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Jedi Knight 2
IGI2: Covert Strike
plus some not really worth mentioning...
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DXMP suffers heavily when you consider a few things. DX is a plot driven game, not a combat driven game.
Only the single player needs a plot to function in the first place. In the MP, the plot is created by the people who play it and you can never know what's coming that very time. You have to make a distinction between Deus Ex SP and Deus Ex MP there...DXMP is definitely combat based and doesn't need a better plot to be fascinating.
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The weapons are in no way balanced correctly for multiplayer (there are some adjustments from SP, but it's not alltogether too great).
The weapons are not equally effective but you can't expect the stealth pistol to be as effective as the assault rifle...actually the weapons are quite well balanced. You can easily counter or enhance their effects with augmentations. I don't know exactly what you mean by 'unbalance' there but having played over 2 years now I would say that the system of weapons and augmentation is quite well balanced e.g. the GEP isn't as powerful as a new player might think because most of the vets use ADS at all times. The aug system is balanced so that you can choose only the other of two comparable augs, such as targeting or ballistic. Ballistic protects you whereas targeting makes your guns more effective...and though targeting makes you a bit weaker against ballistic protection, it drains less bio and applies to every gun you use, not only the ballistic ones. The genius of it is so subtle.
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It's very complicated, while multiplayer in DX allows for hundreds of ways to slaughter your opponents, it's still way to complicated a manner for slaughter.
DXMP isn't simple and brainless slaughter like UT2k3 for example...the difference is that in DX you can counter your enemies' moves and maintain your streak for long. It's not like the guy who found the rocket launcher will blow you away just like that. Exactly the diversity of the styles makes DXMP fascinating.
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The combat itself is jerky, from the animations to things like bullet damage, you really have to consider the fact that when the game was made, it didn't take fighting as an important concept, most of the game is based on stealth, and even though you can go in guns blazing, it's a fairly difficult thing to pull off in the manner that you can in games like Half Life.
The animations aren't the the best perhaps but there's nothing wrong with combat in itself. You can choose to go stealth in DXMP as well and just lam people from distance while no one may be able to find you. In fact, a good cloaker is always a tough opponent to find and kill. The only way people can find you then is with the vision aug or by listening your foot steps. Or you can use both cloak and run silent which makes you totally undetected by everyone except visioners. Bio management is one of the key factors in dxmp...you need to have good keybindings to be able to minimize your bio drain. DXMP is also unique because you can be effective even with high pings by choosing your style to favour the cloaking and stalking approach...many elite players play @ 200 pings or even higher which are far from 10 pings that you get in CS for example.
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I second chris' motion that a co-op would be nice, but most of DX is designed around working against AI, not a bunch of people on par with your abilities.
I don't know about you but I get bored playing against a machine. People are smart and cunning, it's fascinating to see what they choose to do, what tactics they use. When you've played long enough you start anticipating peoples' moves.
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Plus sniping is a bitch in MP
Smiping is an art in MP, rather. I wonder if you've actually played the MP but the sniper isn't shaky and it's one of the coolest guns to use. I've done numerous mid-air headshots and headshots while both me and my opponent moving about with the speed aug.
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Maybe giving DXMP time makes it a better experience, but when you consider that you can jump into MP for other games with nothing more than your FPS skills makes them superior in that aspect. DXMP is a FPS style of gaming, DX the game is not FPS. It may be first person, but it is not in the genre of FPS. Maybe FPRPG....
Yes, the learning curve is quite steep...but then again, I wouldn't call it easy to master for example CS. If you bother learning the basics which can take a month even depending on how much a gamer you are, DXMP will unveil as the deepest MP game you've ever played. The only role playing aspect that I can see in MP is the clans and clan players that play DXMP...it's an interesting world indeed.
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Anyway, I do have a question though, by your post am I right to assume that you played DXMp for a year and a half, before playing SP? Like you never played SP until you'd played MP?
Correct. I saw my brother playing the MP and started trying myself...the thought of playing against dumb and soulless AI kept me waiting but I finally did finish the SP :rolleyes:
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Chris the cynic wrote:If anyone ever played Dark Forces (the first game in the Jed Knight series) you might have noticed a lack of Multi Player, they said this was because it wouldn’t make sense for a bunch of agents to get together and kill each other. The same is true for Deus Ex, in a game based so firmly in reality that they don’t let one thing (count them-zero) go into the game that isn’t possible, why have a multi player in which varied people get together in a miraculously closed off place with lots of guns and kill each other?
The dark forces people put forward the idea that it might be that a team of agents would take on missions, I would have liked to see them implement that multiplayer, but they never did. That is the kind of thing that should be in Deus Ex
In fact, there was a coop mod for DXMP but it vanished because people weren't interested in it. DXMP doesn't need a plot to work. Some sort of plot-type multiplayer would most likely just hinder the energy and tactical depth that DXMP has already. Adding a mission type of mod (like terrorists bombing something in CS) might be a good addition though because it would still be about strategy, tactics and combat. However, advanced team deathmatch is already a profound multiplayer experience. Teamplay is important but not the sole factor to winning, I've used headphones in some clan wars and it's fun. Augmentations added to a simple shooter idea simply take DXMP to a completely different level from simple shoot'em-ups like UT2k3.
I don't know if they work properly for people who don't have the MP patch but I was thinking about posting a link to some demorecordings of [tBoT] clan wars...clan wars are the coolest part of DX. I just need to get some demos uploaded... :cheeky:
Visit the Triad site and forums if you're any interested in MP :thumb:
(
http://triad.deusex-online.com)
(
http://triad.deusex-online.com/forums)
*Zaccheus* on 25/8/2003 at 09:09
Erm ... could you guys perhaps start your own thread?
Alneyan on 26/8/2003 at 11:38
Just wondering, where are you in the game now Zaccheus? I am myself replaying the game, and maybe I will manage to finish it this time. ;)
BlackCapedManX on 27/8/2003 at 03:27
Dude, you've been taking a while to get through HK.
No don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying that you might going to slow, because you can never take too long a good look around the great world of Deus Ex.
I'm just concerned that you're not playing enough... because then I'd have to be worried about you or something. (I mean really, not waste every second of free time on this game? What kind of mad man you'd have to be to follow this route)
Lytha on 27/8/2003 at 13:59
It does explain it, and please don't feel pressured.
So, are you done with HK already? ;)
