Just bought a 1000W power supply... - by bikerdude
bikerdude on 28/7/2009 at 16:14
er...
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What I am saying is that, if you want to get the best you want real-world data. Your microwave may use 600W or more, your PC does not. Not even when you play games on it. 600W is an entirely theoretical and irrelevant figure with little real-world consequence.
So your saying that actually measuring the power consumption at idle, 2D and Load isnt sufficient then..?
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My only slight worry is that the kids will read all this will be dazzled by your clever insights misinterpret your valiant defence against criticism as confidence and happy to consider this thread a sound recommendation that 1kw power supply is an ideal match for a over-clocked gaming PC without applying critical thinking. It isn't. Unfortunately your reasoning on this occasion is a) faulty and b) based on the wrong data; people (including you) should have zero confidence in this thread.
So deriding my comments is supposed to make your opinion any more valid then? My thinking is based on lots of research, measuments and real world observations.
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This is nonsense. For starters I've got my doubts that voltage stability is going to be affected in any significant way.
How do I say this... this is electronics 101, voltage stability is directly linked to load...!!!
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For seconds you're assuming that your precariously over-clocked processor is only going to be stressed when your PSU is at it's peak efficiency - i.e. when your PC is drawing 600W. Aside from the fact that the only way your ever going to get your PC to get there is by artificial stress testing (even then it's fantastically unlikely) it's also irrelevant. PSU Power consumption is no measure of processor load. Your processor can and will be max'd out at almost any Wattage. You can have zero confidence that you're going to get a good return in terms of stability or efficiency improvements based on only knowing that your PC can theoretically drink up to 600W of juice.
The first 3 lines are nonsensical and the remainder has wondered off the path... So I`ll repeat what I have said before, wattage aside my primary aim was to purchase a PSU that would provide a stable 12v line under load at close to or max efficiency.
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What you need, if you really want to match your components, is a profile of what your PC is actually doing during real world use. That way you can pick a component that is at it's best when it's most useful to be so. Even if you're a heavy gamer you would almost certainly be better off with a smaller PSU.
If that was the case then I would have stuck with my old 600W psu.
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That you've almost certainly mismatched your PSU with your system means that it will be working at lower efficiency, which means it will be, by definition, generating
more heat and noise.
Er no, under full load that particular psu(OCZ 1000W) matched quite well, which is what I was aiming for.
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The only thing a 1kW PSU will do effectively is pedal the false notion that bigger is better and make gamers feel inadequate amongst their social peers and ever encourage them hand over yet more cash for stuff that is of little benefit.
I have to assume that your deriding assumptions are just argumentative, because I have yet to see (Im open to something constructive..) that would change my current thinking. If you can point me to some link that support what your trying to say then I'm all ears.
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bikerdude on 28/7/2009 at 16:22
Quote Posted by Briareos H
I won't comment precisely on other things said (although 1kW is ludicrous even in the case of a highly overclocked system with dual graphics cards), but this is wrong.
Anyway Biker, I'm not sure that buying an average 1kW PSU for a theoretical perfect voltage stability up to 500W effective peaks is wiser than buying an excellent 600W PSU.
I agree a 1kw is overkill. So apart from all the other points I have raised, one that I forgot to mention and one that no one else has is capacitor ageing. like a lot of people I keep PSU's for a number of years and during that time the efficiency drops, so in this case I will still have enough capacity to cover my max consumption. Also another point worth mentioning is that all single 12v rail psu's come in high wattage, this also influenced my purchasing.
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Anyway Biker, I'm not sure that buying an average 1kW PSU for a theoretical perfect voltage stability up to 500W effective peaks is wiser than buying an excellent 600W PSU.
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That's what I was trying to say, only better
As I said previously, Im more than happy to look at other idea's and information - give me some links etc.
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dvrabel on 28/7/2009 at 19:15
Quote Posted by Bikerdude
I have yet to see data...
Yes, you don't have
any of the data to back up the sort of technical claims you're making. You don't have load vs time measurements, nor do you have efficiency vs load graphs for the power supply, nor measurements of 12V output stability, or even information that indicates that this is a relevant factor in system stability.
You're writing a lot of technical sounding words that aren't backed up by any real data. I call this bullshit (irrespective of the correctness or not of your final conclusion).
bikerdude on 28/7/2009 at 20:59
I've just re-read the thread and some of my replies come across as aggressive and confrontational, that was not my intention. But if people are going to resort to petty derisory comments, then I suggest they go somewhere else.
On another note I am going to speak with a senior electronics engineer tomorrow to get to bottom of this.
bikerdude on 28/7/2009 at 21:03
Quote Posted by Hiatus
ok, I'd be grateful :)
specs: Pentium Dual Core 1.8GHz (no o/c), ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 256MB(no oc), P35 mobo, 2GB RAM (no o/c), 2 HDDs, 1 DVD.
it's intended to be a legacy gaming machine due to good compatibility with old games, and won't be upgraded etc.
Hi Hiatus
Apologies, I completly forgot to look into this for you, I`ll drop you a Pm
Al_B on 28/7/2009 at 21:26
If you're in a position to do some mains power measurements with your new and old power supplies those could be quite interesting. Measuring the loading on output power rails on a PC PSU is very difficult and with poorly designed PSUs power sharing between rails is a big issue with efficiency anyway.
However, measuring the load taken is a comparatively simpler task if you can put your PC into a repeatable state of load. Obviously, if you can't achieve a stable configuration with your old PSU then it's a moot point anyway.
bikerdude on 28/7/2009 at 21:59
Quote Posted by Al_B
If you're in a position to do some mains power measurements with your new and old power supplies those could be quite interesting. Measuring the loading on output power rails on a PC PSU is very difficult and with poorly designed PSUs power sharing between rails is a big issue with efficiency anyway.
However, measuring the load taken is a comparatively simpler task if you can put your PC into a repeatable state of load. Obviously, if you can't achieve a stable configuration with your old PSU then it's a moot point anyway.
Hi Al
I do still have the old PSU(600W quad rail unit) and I haven't bought the new one yet. I did to a mains power usage measurement on the old one and I found I was using just over 600W, so at 82% efficiency that meant 492W internally, leaving 108W, decreasing efficiency, increasing Vdroop and more heat and fan noise.
And as you say it was moot, the old unit wasnt stable enough beyond the above settings, which partly contributed to why I wasn't able to achieve any kind of stable overclock. the other issue was because it was a quad rail I the gfx card was maxing out one of the 12V rails all by itself. Which is why I've only been looking at single 12V rail PSU's
Al_B on 29/7/2009 at 18:13
Interesting - I can see why the old one was struggling. I assume the efficiency figure of 82% is just a ballpark estimate - obviously each output rail will have its own efficiency depending on the load at any moment in time.
bikerdude on 29/7/2009 at 20:38
Quote Posted by Al_B
Interesting - I can see why the old one was struggling. I assume the efficiency figure of 82% is just a ballpark estimate - obviously each output rail will have its own efficiency depending on the load at any moment in time.
I would say close enough for purposes. Taking the psu's original rating and the capacitor age at the time I took the measurements it would more than safe to say it was type to upgrade. Im still waiting for that electronics engineer to get back to me, so i can make an even better informed decision.
Adam Nuhfer on 30/7/2009 at 00:34
Quote Posted by Bikerdude
Im still waiting for that electronics engineer to get back to me, so i can make an even better informed decision.
How much better informed do you want? Even before you posted this thread you had/have more than ample personal knowledge in regards to computer hardware regarding the subject matter to make a very informed buying decision.
Even with the electronic engineer point of view there will be the issue of what day of the week was said product made. Are the transformers from the same mfg.. Are the windings copper or aluminum. Are they using grain oriented laminated steel in the transformers. Etc..
One can seek additional knowledge but at what point does it get to be overbearing in regards to what you get back in real world results. What matters is what YOU want. You want a 1000 watt PS even if your only going to feed a 200 watt load, it's your choice.
In all the above posts I haven't seen much in mention of the issue related to a quality power supply with top notch components rated at lets say 800 watts in relation to a cheaply constructed 1000 watt power supply.
I take it your looking to find some middle ground in the cost/benefit ratio as opposed to strictly the best quailty power supply regardless of cost.
