Starker on 17/12/2018 at 18:30
Even if he made the Doom levels just to keep his name in the news, is that really so bad that he has to be lambasted for it and every little thing from his past brought up?
Sulphur on 17/12/2018 at 18:43
Y'know, for all the rationalising going on in here about it, I think the simplest explanation is there's a tremendous amount of fallout from the 'Romero's about to make you his bitch' ad campaign back in the day. It probably wasn't his fault (marketing departments can be... special, and in the 90s they were doubly so). But a) it's the closest relevant touchpoint for him since he's not really done anything of note since Daikatana; pride goeth, etc. b) people like nursing grudges, and c) I guess people just can't resist the chance to be Nelson from the Simpsons.
Inline Image:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kdOPBP9vuZA/hqdefault.jpgStarker on 17/12/2018 at 18:49
For 18 years? I'm just saying it's pathetic at this point. He has long apologised for those adverts. Just maybe it's time to move on. Or does it take another 18 years? 36 years? At this point, it is grudge held longer than that of the Count of Monte Cristo. And for what? For a rock star image? For seeming arrogant? For making a bad game? For not making a really good game after that? For making mobile games? I'm having a hard time figuring out what the big crime here is that warrants that sort of a dedicated grudge.
Sulphur on 17/12/2018 at 18:50
Agreed. It's past time to give the man a break. I think he's earned it by now.
RE: your edit, I don't think anyone's trying to one-up The Count of Monte Cristo (though that'd be another tale for the ages that'd almost be worth the effort just for how singular the story would be), it's just how human memory works through association. Romero self-immolated when he put himself in the spotlight - so by association, every time he tries it again, people are going to remember that fireball.
I know every time someone mentions Romero, my brain generally goes, 'oh, the dude who took down most of Ion Storm by himself', before remembering his more important work with id. It's a very human thing to associate negative experiences first instead of positive ones.
Starker on 17/12/2018 at 19:30
I don't think anyone's trying to one-up the Count of Monte Cristo either. It was purely to highlight the ridiculousness of it all.
Sulphur on 17/12/2018 at 19:32
Good. I'd still like to see someone try, though.
heywood on 18/12/2018 at 23:01
You guys keep trying to make this about Daikatana, but it's not about that. It's about looking at the sum of his career so far and what he has accomplished & contributed, and contrasting that with the fame he has achieved and the size of his ego.
He worked on a few famous games during the ~5 years he was at id, but he was just one of a team. He didn't design Commander Keen, or Wolf 3D, or Doom. In the early days of id, he was a programmer. For Doom he wrote the level editor and designed about 1/3-1/2 of the maps. After Tom Hall left, he had the chance to lead the design for Quake, which he conceived to be a medieval/fantasy type game with RPG elements and 3rd person melee combat with a giant hammer. Reportedly, the designers and artists went in circles for year while the engine was being developed. And when the engine was done, the team voted to scrap Romero's ideas in favor of a Doom clone. In the end, his contribution to Quake was mainly writing the level editor and sound work. He notoriously slacked off during Quake development, and spent too much time with the press. He was pushed out the door 22 years ago.
What has he accomplished in the last 22 years after id that makes him worth paying attention to now? The last time he had a big budget, which was about 10 years ago, he spent 4 years making an MMO before the publisher pulled the plug on him. He's been talking about creating a new FPS since 2012. Can't find anyone to fund his project. He and Adrian tried to crowd fund it a couple years ago and the Kickstarter flopped. He promised to come back with a demo, but that never happened. He says he's still working on something, but it's a secret. Something about the publisher wanting to handle the PR, not the developer. If true, who could blame them.
He probably misses all the fawning press attention, and I rather cynically view this Doom episode as capitalizing on an anniversary to get his name back on the front pages. Because the defining characteristic of John's career is his narcissism, not his game design skills.
Starker on 19/12/2018 at 05:59
To be honest, that sounds even more petty. So, just because he hasn't made a blockbuster hit game in the meanwhile, he must be lambasted at every turn when he does something for the rest of his life? Again, why? Nobody is asking you to cheer him on, but what's the worst that could happen if he does make another game?
Also, even if he is just craving for attention, people will get a bunch of Doom levels out of it.
Renault on 19/12/2018 at 06:23
Starker, you keep asking why, why, why. No offense, but read the thread - people are telling you exactly why. You're just not accepting their answers. There's no secret reason for it besides what's been stated here.
And tbh I think people would love to see him succeed. But since he talked such a big game and failed miserably 20 years ago, and really hasn't come up with anything significant since, it's understandable that people would be skeptical of anything he does now. Doesn't that make sense?
Plus, I didn't see anyone in this thread really going off on a Daikatana tirade in the first place. It was mentioned a few times, but that was it, so I think you're overreacting.
Starker on 19/12/2018 at 07:38
No offence, but none of the reasons that people have been bringing seem to warrant the treatment. Let's look at them for a bit, shall we...
Making a bad game and having an offensive ad, both of which happened decades ago (and he has apologised for the ad).
At some point, apparently taking more credit for his time at ID than was appropriate.
Having been too fond of publicity.
Having had a rock star image after he produced some hit games (and yes, he was not alone, but one of several people).
Participating in projects that have failed to go anywhere.
Not making another hit game.
Making Doom levels for the sole purpose to get in headlines.
Does this sound like anything worth a lifetime grudge?
As for my reaction, I think it's entirely appropriate for the amount of overreaction John Romero keeps getting. People keep portraying him as some sort of a villain, but as far as I'm concerned, nothing he's accused of seems to rise to that level. Being skeptical is one thing, but when things that happened decades ago keep being brought up and his character keeps being attacked, this is more like being vindictive at this point.
Let's say we assume the absolute worst of him and take it that he really made the Doom levels only because he wanted attention and for no other reason. Is that really such a big crime that he would deserve flak for it? Why not accuse him of drinking milk out of the carton while we're at it.
