Starker on 25/4/2016 at 15:41
Yeah, the KS is pretty underwhelming. If you say you're going to innovate the genre, you kind of have to back it up a little more than that.
heywood on 25/4/2016 at 15:43
Quote Posted by icemann
And I don't get why Ion Storm gets so much dislike. They made Deus Ex and Thief 3. Those games are excellent. Sure they also made Deus Ex Invisible War (which wasn't terrible, but it wasn't good either) and Daikitana (which I've never played but is a mixed bag from what I've read). For Deus Ex 1 and Thief 3 alone, they have my respect. Every studio makes good and bad games.
Remember there were two Ion Storm studios, Dallas and Austin. Romero and Hall set up in a swanky penthouse office at the top of a Dallas skyscraper and pissed away money like water while only producing one decent game in 5 years. Spector founded the lower key Austin office that produced the Deus Ex games and Deadly Shadows.
Quote Posted by icemann
I go by cold hard logic.
Games while Romero was at id - Fantastic
Games after he left - From mixed bag (Doom 3) to meh.
When it comes to the great programmers (eg John Carmack). They tend to get false views of themselves that what they do is far more important than what game designers come up with.
Game designers sometimes fall into this trap as well.
The truth is that each is equally important, with neither being more important than the other. Good luck trying to get that through to the people in question though.
I go by cold hard logic too. Let's compare what id accomplished after Romero left: Quake II, Q3 Arena, Doom 3, Rage, and a whole lot of licensed engine games. Versus what Romero accomplished after leaving id: Daikatana and a few lame mobile games.
Also, when you look at the games that made id famous, Commander Keen, Wolf 3D, Doom, Quake, what was Romero's design contribution? Commander Keen was Tom Hall's baby. Tom Hall was also responsible for the design of Doom, which was then streamlined down to the basics during development. Romero's design for Quake was similarly whittled down to nothing during development. Wolf 3D, Doom, and Quake had relatively little design to them, otherwise they would have never gotten out the door. So Romero's contribution was really just mapping. In that role, he was good, but not really any better than the others at id.
When Romero finally did get to realize his design vision, we got Daikatana.
Somehow he turned id's success into his own personal celebrity, which he coasted on for years and years wasting other people's money while producing nothing. Seriously, has the guy finished
anything in the last 10 years? Why should we expect this latest venture to amount to anything?
Chickenface on 25/4/2016 at 17:44
I love how on Carmack's paint platter thing all the colors were shades of red.
Edit: the time in the video is 2:30
Vicarious on 25/4/2016 at 17:46
Ok, nothing to see here. The game is not even in actual development yet and won't be until they get $700k from the KS.
Chickenface on 25/4/2016 at 17:50
what's the audio at the end? I know it's backward, but I don't have any audio-mixing tools right now.
Muzman on 25/4/2016 at 18:29
Quote Posted by Starker
Actually, I always wondered whether Eidos buying LGS would have saved the studio, especially with the long winter of consoles at the doorstep. And even if Eidos had somehow kept the money they had invested in Ion Storm on hand, there probably would have been some downsizing, as they seemed pretty reluctant to buy such a big studio in the first place.
Yeah probably true. The PCpocalypse of '04 probably would have taken Looking Glass, if anyone, had they lived. Still, Irrational managed to limp through. It still would have been interesting to see what Eidos might have done without the Ion millstone around their neck. But we can't go too strong on speculative second order consequences and so on.
Renault on 25/4/2016 at 19:35
Quote Posted by Vicarious
The game is not even in actual development yet and won't be until they get $700k from the KS.
You'd think these guys would have saved a couple of bucks from all their years at id. It's probably an antiquated belief, but I always figured Kickstarters were designed for fledgling developers. Hard to believe these guys can't at least secure some financing on their own with their years of experience and all the contacts they've made.
Melan on 25/4/2016 at 20:04
They do have backup funding if their Kickstarter succeeds. Romero said as much in this evening's twitch stream. Kickstarter may have been intended for small fish, but in practice, it is largely the big names with a reputation who are tapping into it.
As for any iD money, it is now 20 years later, so it is either gone on other projects like Daikatana, or wisely invested into a retirement fund.
Judith on 25/4/2016 at 20:38
Quote Posted by Brethren
You'd think these guys would have saved a couple of bucks from all their years at id. It's probably an antiquated belief, but I always figured Kickstarters were designed for fledgling developers. Hard to believe these guys can't at least secure some financing on their own with their years of experience and all the contacts they've made.
They probably don't want to invest their own money in a new risky project, when they can try to exploit other possibilities first (see Peter Molyneux/Godus controversy). Not that I support that, but it's been done a few times already, by other famous developers.
heywood on 25/4/2016 at 21:17
Romero lived the rock star lifestyle for years, so who knows what he's got left in the bank. Here's my guess: Given the state of his career post-id, I'll bet nobody in the business would give him a dime, so it was either kickstarter or offer up whatever assets he has as collateral for a big bank loan. I will be sincerely amazed if the KS reaches it's goal, and even more amazed if an actual game comes out of it.
