*Zaccheus* on 22/1/2010 at 13:34
Quote Posted by hopper
1) Blacks have poorer science/academic skills than whites.
I would consider that a racist attitude and in no way "so far so good". :weird:
Although to be fair I should revise my own example to say: "Black have a better sense of rhythm than non-blacks."
thefonz on 22/1/2010 at 13:40
Tell that to Eminem.
hopper on 22/1/2010 at 14:25
Quote Posted by *Zaccheus*
I would consider that a racist attitude and in no way "so far so good".
Well, your example was just as racist: "Whites have a poorer sense of rhythm than blacks" frames your condition 1 negatively without altering the substance, so where's the difference?
Also, non-blacks is a cop-out; it still means that blacks are lording it over other races when it comes to rhythm. :p
On a more serious note, I still think the effect would rather be the reverse of what you're saying, meaning that in your example white pupils would have to compete harder than blacks for the same grades because of judgement bias resulting from condition 1.
SubJeff on 22/1/2010 at 15:57
Quote Posted by thefonz
Tell that to Eminem.
Keep dreaming.
*Zaccheus* on 22/1/2010 at 16:00
Quote Posted by hopper
Also, non-blacks is a cop-out; it still means that blacks are lording it over other races when it comes to rhythm. :p
The question being discussed was: Is it racist to think something nice about a group of people.
My suggestion was that even thinking something nice about a group of people can still lead to them being discriminated against.
SubJeff on 22/1/2010 at 17:19
Yeah, better to just hate everyone. Once you start liking anyone it gets complicated. Hate is easier to deal with.
:rolleyes:
*Zaccheus* on 22/1/2010 at 17:37
I am always amazed how well some people can twist a simple statement beyond recognition and imply some really nasty stuff instead.
Fingernail on 22/1/2010 at 18:16
The problem is evident even here; because it's a generally complimentary thing (and I know this is the point, and it's an example), it's not been picked up on, but there's no real evidence or understanding shown when claiming that black people have "better rhythm".
Now it is true that much African music (and be aware that this is seriously reductive too, implying that Africa is basically a culturally and musically homogenous territory) is more grounded in rhythm than the European tradition (but who would deny that classical music has pulse, meter, and even at times a very explicitly stated beat?).
However. This view is more complex. For a start, there is the implied alternative that White people have a better understanding of harmony (as evidenced by their music). Once we get into cultural associations between harmony (intellectualised, sophisticated) and rhythm (bodily, sexual) - both associations which are not necessarily grounded in any real representative action, much like there is no physical "height" to high notes, yet we differentiate between high and low pitches in such geometric terms nonetheless - once we get there, we can go down many discriminatory routes.
Black people can dance better which supposedly signifies greater sexual prowess. This might be admirable. However it might also be degenerative compared with a nice Waltz.
SubJeff on 22/1/2010 at 18:34
My point was, Zach, that thinking too hard about this will get you into all sorts of trouble. If you start turning compliments into bad things then what is the point of making any value judgment at all? Its better to just think it then and never dare to speak it.
Thirith - I mean that its just human nature. Since we're thinking, reasoning creatures we also have choice, willpower and restraint. Its human nature to want to sleep with someone we find attractive but it doesn't mean we'll always act on that urge every time we get a chance.
It is in our nature to group and classify things because that is the way we order the universe. Stereotyping is just that. We stereotype snakes as dangerous because many of them are, but its not true of all of them. Yet if I put a snake in your lap unless you a.knew it wasn't poisonous and b.didn't have a phobia you'd be pretty uncomfortable about it. That's survival stereotyping right there.
Stitch on 22/1/2010 at 22:18
Quote Posted by Fingernail
Black people can dance better which supposedly signifies greater sexual prowess.
And nicely compliments their bigger johnsons.
