Jack? Jack is dead, my friend. You can call me... - by Stitch
Rogue Keeper on 6/11/2007 at 16:44
You're just full of "plot is trash and if you don't see it you suck" but you're unable to analyze the plot in detail and mark out the bad spots and explain why they are wrong.
Plot is paramount sure, the difference is that every genre accents different things in plot. You need a detailed technical explanation of how can the power plant drain energy from entire city? That's what techno/political/detective thrillers are for.
The substance of comic movie is that it doesn't take itself too seriously - every time it tries to do, it's a farce. If you watch comic movies for that kind of thing, then you are watching the wrong genre. Enjoy the characters development, enjoy the production design, enjoy the pace of the story - which should be balanced and not focusing on boring trivialities of the REAL WORLD.
Right, of course Batman doesn't kill the villains. I meant it as a hyperbole. He just hunts them - but with the same kind of passionless obsession. Development of the central superhero is crucial for any series. Otherwise he stagnates and it's all about the same.
Matthew on 6/11/2007 at 17:21
Oh indeed, hence Batman's occasional need to re-examine exactly what he is doing and why throughout his history (most recently in the One Year Later stories IIRC).
I suspect the Watchmen movie will have to take itself seriously to succeed, though. ;)
Turtle on 6/11/2007 at 17:26
Good luck with the getting laid, you guys!
Matthew on 6/11/2007 at 17:27
Jesus, no! I might get cooties or something.
SubJeff on 6/11/2007 at 17:47
Quote Posted by BR796164
You're just full of "plot is trash and if you don't see it you suck" but you're unable to analyze the plot in detail and mark out the bad spots and explain why they are wrong.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
You forgot the power plant plot bit. Sucking power from a city. Great.
That's all you need. Sucking. Power. From. A. City.
W.
T.
F?
Stitch on 6/11/2007 at 18:27
A SUBJECTIVE EFFECT PRODUCTION
Zygoptera on 6/11/2007 at 22:09
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
That's all you need. Sucking. Power. From. A. City.
It's a subtle parable of the fundamental basis of Big Business and Capitalism.
Max Shreck represents Big Business. Selena represents Mother Nature. Her defenestration (from a large, phallic shaped building? Do you
really think that is coincidence?) represents the Rape of Nature. Her transformation into Catwoman (by getting licked by cats? How can you not see the Sapphic Significance?) represents Nature's Revenge. Max Shreck's capacitor plan represents the Capitalistic and Big Business urge to increase profits at any cost and to gouge as much cash as possible from the Working Man. I find your inability to catch such subtleties astounding and disappointing.
Also, the Power Plant Plan is effectively what the utilities did to California pre-Arnie. As such Batman Returns is clearly a useful tool for predicting the future too.
Stitch on 6/11/2007 at 22:29
I dig Batman Returns. It's goofy and messy but contains some incredibly stylish and inspired bits. Plus the Kyle/Wayne/Catwoman/Batman love square rocks, and Devito's nightmarish Penguin has his moments, even if he isn't really the Penguin.
As for Heath's Joker, I don't want some "internally consistent take on the Joker that makes sense," I want the fucking Joker. Nolan so far has displayed very little understanding of what it is that makes Batman and his universe interesting, which doesn't give me much faith in his ability to do justice to the greatest comic book villain of all time.
Having said that, apparently they're using The Killing Joke as a reference point, which is promising.
Matthew on 6/11/2007 at 23:13
Well, as long as they don't use THAT BIT from TKJ. You know the one.
Scots Taffer on 7/11/2007 at 00:01
The Burton movies oozed style out of their collective arse, they were big, grandiose, gothic, dark and often hilariously over the top. I love both Batman and Returns and think that the villains in both movies are both the icing on the cake and the kiss of death. There's something just a little off about all of their representations and the stylism of the villains that's just not quite right, plus one or two of the production choices were dubious.
Also, I've got to say that BRnumbers isn't far off the mark with his commentary on Batman in Returns, there are several instances where Batman is gleefully murdering the Penguin's goons (think of the timebomb in the pants for example). He does seem a little less driven by a sense of justice and overall comes off more like a Dexter character.
Stitch, I have no background in comicbooks so I'm approaching a Nolan joker to "make sense" in its own way, but that doesn't mean logical or neat and tidy (I'd still like a mad as fuck Joker). I just like how Nolan works and he works best when he has got an entity that makes sense in and of itself, not a trick of light or smoke and mirrors.
