Jack? Jack is dead, my friend. You can call me... - by Stitch
Matthew on 6/11/2007 at 12:53
Quote Posted by BR796164
DeVito was nominated for best Villain and Pfeifer for most desirable femme fatale - if you take MTV Awards seriously.
Does
anyone?
SubJeff on 6/11/2007 at 14:10
Quote Posted by BR796164
- if you take MTV Awards seriously.
And this is why your opinion counts for naught - even mentioning it means you give it some credence. Watch the film again. If DeVito's performance doesn't make you embarrassed for the man (anyone who agrees to doing lameness "bloody nose" scene is just... :rolleyes: ) you've no soul, and if you can't see what nonsense the plot is then don't bother talking about the film ever 'cause that's like having a long discussion about The Matrix and ending with "But can someone explain why they were always needed a phone?" (which has happened, I kid you not), or passionately insisting that Bruce Willis committed suicide at the
end of the 6th Sense .
Rogue Keeper on 6/11/2007 at 14:33
Fine, forget about MTV awards, jeez.
I'm embarassed by your inability to rationally analyze a movie and just emotionally present your purely personal feelings from it as if they were superior.
(
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/batman_returns/) Majority of reviews are on my side. You loose!
Quote:
Both Pfeiffer and DeVito are absolutely superb, and Keaton, despite the limitations of his role, looks in hindsight like the perfect choice for the part (especially having seen the dismal attempts of Val Kilmer and George Clooney in later abominations) ... 4 of 5
(
http://www.movie-gazette.com/cinereviews/506)
SubJeff on 6/11/2007 at 14:43
Quote Posted by BR796164
I'm embarassed by your inability to rationally analyze a movie and just emotionally present your purely personal feelings from it as if they were superior.
Or even your own inability to remember why it sucked? Do you remember the plot?
Oh lollers, this link of yours reveals much criticism and the final score on that page is a MASSIVE 5.5 or 6.5/10 depending on which page you view. Doesn't give much confidence in their system does it. Besides who cares what these sites say? I've never heard of most of the sources and come on who trusts the Sci-fi Movie page anyway?
Thirith on 6/11/2007 at 14:51
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Besides who cares what these sites say?
We could also say "Who cares what Subjective Effect says?" and with as much justification. More, perhaps, depending on what you think about critics.
Batman Returns seems to be one of those films that people either love or hate. It is far from perfect, and I'd agree with you that the Penguin is one of its problems. However, I love the film for its atmosphere (the film is the most atmospheric of the Batman movies, as far as I'm concerned), Pfeiffer's Selina Kyle/Catwoman, Max Schreck, and lots of scenes that are gems, as far as I'm concerned.
Matthew on 6/11/2007 at 14:52
It's interesting how much of a split there is within comics fandom on Batman Returns, actually.
Rogue Keeper on 6/11/2007 at 14:57
Of course I remember the plot, who could forget such deep and psychologically complex villains like DeVito's Penguin or Pfeiffer's Catwoman and controversial tendencies of the superhero as presented here.
If you never heard about most of the sources, it's because you're ignorant. Serious cinematic fineschmeckers with refined tastes like *ME* care about reviews of other serious cinematic fineschmeckers with refined tastes. You are just jealous you're not in the club.
SubJeff on 6/11/2007 at 14:58
Quote Posted by Thirith
We could also say "Who cares what Subjective Effect says?" and with as much justification. More, perhaps, depending on what you think about critics.
I'm not asking you to care about what I think, but to think about the flaws in the film. I agree with you on the atmosphere point, and the Batman-Catwoman stuff was well handled. But the plot is tosh and the Penguin a campy nonsense.
Quote Posted by BR796164
Serious cinematic fineschmeckers with
refined tastes like *ME* care about reviews of other serious cinematic fineschmeckers with refined tastes. You are just jealous you're not in the club.
ah ha ha
You forgot the power plant plot bit. Sucking power from a city. Great.
Starrfall on 6/11/2007 at 15:00
Guys I don't think Subjective Effect likes Batman Returns
Thirith on 6/11/2007 at 15:03
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I'm not asking you to care about what I think, but to think about the flaws in the film. I agree with you on the atmosphere point, and the Batman-Catwoman stuff was well handled. But the plot is tosh and the Penguin a campy nonsense.
For me, plot is often secondary to characters and atmosphere, which explains why I love Batman Returns. I've never thought that Tim Burton was good at directing plot-centred movies, but at his best he was good at creating worlds and peopling them with the sort of characters that you only get in Burton.
I do like some of the Penguin scenes, though: 1) the clown going, "But Penguin, killing children... isn't that a little...?", Penguin shoots him and snarls, "No, it's a lot!" 2) The Penguin's speech to his troops (a touch of Richard III, anyone?). 3) The Penguin's death.
