Renzatic on 12/8/2013 at 05:01
Quote Posted by Starker
From my experience, and I'm not new to gamepads, you lose more than "just a bit" of the accuracy. For me, it is unacceptable enough to prefer a keyboard and a mouse every single time.
There are two things I feel you lose when going from the mouse to a gamepad. One is being able to pivot your character around on a dime. Analog sticks have a set speed you can turn at, with a mouse, all you have to do is make a quick wrist movement, and you've done a split second 180. The second is pixel perfect aiming. You won't be able to do a quick headshot from 100 yards away quite as easily on a gamepad as you would a mouse.
Thing is, these are problems that'd effect faster paced first person shooters moreso than they would slower games like Thief. Like if EM were to do direct ports of T1&2 to the 360 and PS3, I couldn't think of a single thing they'd have to change or dumb down to get it playable with a gamepad. Well...maybe they'd have to replace the 0-10 hotkeys with a radial menu for all your items, but beyond that, with 16 buttons, you should have access to every move available on the kb/m.
Quote:
Are you trying to say that limiting vertical movement in a first person game is not advantageous for gamepads? I don't think I can agree with that. It seems to me that the less you have to use the right thumbstick the better.
I can't think of any console games that have to limit vertical movement because of issues with the right thumbstick. I know I didn't have any problems with Dishonored, which played exactly the same besides having a larger reticle for when you were using a gun.
Now I'm not saying that thumbsticks are a 100% perfect match for the mouse. There are some things they'll never do quite as well. But they're also not so bad you have to make huge sacrifices to level design and gameplay to accommodate them.
SubJeff on 12/8/2013 at 05:59
I'll still bowled over by this suggestion that Blink has anything to do with gamepads.
Starker on 12/8/2013 at 06:37
Quote Posted by Renzatic
I can't think of any console games that have to limit vertical movement because of issues with the right thumbstick. I know I didn't have any problems with Dishonored, which played exactly the same besides having a larger reticle for when you were using a gun.
Oh I'm not saying they have to limit it, just that a gamepad would benefit from it.
redface on 12/8/2013 at 08:31
Dear developers, you seem to really want us to feel like master thieves. And master thieves don't fall, they don't stumble. They're not stupid to fire rope arrows into beams that won't hold. They swoop and roll and jump precisely and see evething with their scanner eye.
But you're missing one important thing: the guards can still, occasionally, see, hear and hurt us. That would never happen to a master thief. So on behalf of every player who is not comfortable with his thiefing skills, please make us invisible and silent as a mouse. Then the game will finally be PERFECT.
DJ Riff on 12/8/2013 at 09:43
Quote Posted by Renzatic
I have no idea why they're even in there
I think it's because they strive for "next-gen" look but still have to optimize it for decent performance on current gen consoles. So they limited the level geometry to a bare minimum of what the player can see from the ground and those specific upper points they allow them to climb. In addition, collision models may be simplified to large cubes and spheres so even if you're allowed to jump and climb freely, you still cannot climb that balcony or window sill because there's nothing to climb on physically.
Robert4222 on 12/8/2013 at 11:32
Quote Posted by Calibrator
Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about the graphics. I still play fan missions for the original games and we all know how they look.
Also, it's to be expected that most games published in the first year of a new console generation don't make full use of the new hardware, anyway.
However, what I *do* care about it is gameplay deficiencies and I won't tolerate a game in the franchise that is dumbed down this much.
I mean, what's next? "Thief - The Tablet Edition" with single, context-sensitive touchscreen presses?
Or "Thief - The Pre-Schoolers Edition" which plays itself?
What's making me angry is that Eidos can produce good, immersive games if they have a capable team and the will to do it.
"Deus Ex: Human Revolution" is a good example for that: A modernized classic with acceptable changes that was both successful with the audience and the critics. Free saving on consoles and jumping included, by the way...
IMHO DX:HR is every bit as good as Dishonored (I played both on the PS3 and had no problems whatsoever) - and both games seem to be leagues better than the new official Thief game. Their designers made the right choices, at least most of the time.
So, if Eidos now buggers Thief 4 up then it's by their choice. The choice of hiring an incapable producer, for example.
You misunderstood me. I don't care at all about the graphics, just like you, what I was telling is that the game's graphics aspect could so easily be optimized and adapted for current-gen that I'm surprised they didn't develop it for current platforms until now
But still, I care as much as you about the gameplay deficiencies. One thing that surprised me is the way the Thief team is making the same mistakes the DE team made, such as third-person camera according to context and third-person takedowns
I mean seriously, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING !
Jack Lee on 12/8/2013 at 13:13
Guys stop worrying, normal people never jump around like lunatics so why would a master thief jump up 'n down like some annoying kid? Puh-lease!
Dia on 12/8/2013 at 13:45
If that was sarcasm it was an epic fail. It seems you've obviously missed the point entirely. It's not about a master thief jumping around like a lunatic, it's about being able to make the jumps and mantles and beam-balancing that Garrett has always made (in the original games) to get where he's going. It's about (the obviously clueless) Eidos' lead level designer William Schmidt making the asinine statement that “Jumping, bouncing up and down, kind of broke the immersion ... We didn't want you to be the master thief and you just tend to fall off stuff all the time.”
Sadly, Mr. Schmidt, you just can't fix stupid.
ZylonBane on 12/8/2013 at 13:47
The title of this particular forum is rapidly approaching 100% ironic.
Vae on 12/8/2013 at 13:49
The appropriate title for this forum would be "Thief 4 Apprehension"...I motion for such a change.
