Springheel on 14/8/2013 at 13:55
Quote:
How good or bad is this game compared to Deadly Shadows in your opinion?
Yes, by all means, let's compare a game that hasn't even been completed yet with one everyone has played already.
Asquith on 14/8/2013 at 19:17
The world as I once knew it was a place of magic - full of mystery and
inhabited by games of glamour and terror. The men who lived there wrote their own notes
and wondered at what crept and lurked in the darkness outside their weak in-game maps.
All their dreams, their aspirations and dreads, come from that unknown.
Now, as the forces of "progress" cover the gameplay in quick-time and load screens, as they
replace the majestic expanse of levels with the blocky ponderousness of corridors, they also
light the world in their electric, blooming glare. With the grounding of the jumps, man
loses his ability to fear, and to dream.
The dark, once the font of the unknown,
becomes only a screen with fog. I have conceived of a plan to revive the darkness,
to bring a resurrection of the ability to jump and climb. And, once my dark project is
realized, Eidos's share price will learn the meaning of decline.
- Constantine
Robert4222 on 14/8/2013 at 23:40
Quote Posted by Springheel
Yes, by all means, let's compare a game that hasn't even been completed yet with one everyone has played already.
I should have precised I was talking in terms of overall gameplay mechanics and possibilities, not the games themselves. I can still expect nice moments in nuThief, there was some leaked concept art and images of the trailer in which we can see Garret smeaking through a room full of birds in cages
Renault on 16/8/2013 at 15:19
I meant to post this yesterday, this is a post from b1skit on the official forums, a response to all the complaints about the lack of freedom and inability to jump where you want to in New Thief. Thought it was pretty funny, and somewhat...unrefined? Unprofessional? I don't know, but it doesn't really sound like a statement from an official, paid Community Manager. You be the judge.
Quote:
LOL! Everybody needs to calm down and relax.
This is such a non-issue. You can absolutely jump and move through the world fluidly and freely. The game has been designed specifically to achieve this goal. You're looking at this like you're losing a feature, but the reality is that you're gaining dozens more.
Anybody claiming the game will somehow be ruined because you can't free jump, when there is no reason to be jumping, would have to agree that Gran Tourismo is ruined because you can't choose to pop the trunk - right? No, of course not.
Saying that immersion is broken because of the absence of a feature allowing you to physically break out of character is akin to dividing by zero. Garrett would never randomly hop, skip and jump through the world. He just wouldn't. Honestly, if you need to spam the jump button continually for no reason to truly feel immersed a game, or need to be able to randomly pop yourself into the air like a grasshopper with the hiccups - then hell, maybe Thief isn't for you. But, check out Team Fortress 2 - it's free to play and you'll probably love it!
As someone who has played the game more than anybody else outside of the dev team, I can assure you that free jumping would ruin immersion. Pogo hopping through the world like a shop manequin on a spring would seem incredibly out of place, dated and overly simplistic within the context of the rest of the rich and tactile mechanics that have been created soley to make you feel like a Master Thief slipping through the world.
Like I said yesterday, this is not tomb raider, this is not The Last of Us, this is not an early 2000's game with cheesy pre-programmed hot spots. Forget what you know about the word "contextual" - it's been turned into a dirty word of late, but don't make the mistake of judging Thief on how "contextual" actions have been handled in other, completely unrelated games.
Consider that this only has become an 'issue' on the forums here after someone quoted a snippet of a text interview. It was never brought up when you guys first saw the E3 gameplay footage. Nor was it ever brought up as an issue by any of the journalists who played the game - including the few more 'critical' reports. MT didn't even scream bloody murder or beg the team to change the feature after he played the game. Why? For 1 very simple reason: It's just not an issue. Nobody felt restricted. Nobody felt they were missing anything. Chances are when you're finally playing the game, neither will you!
You can't free jump just for no reason - but you can jump whenever and wherever you need to jump. It's fluid. It's slick. You tap the jump button in the EXACT same way, with the exact same timing as if you had a free jump. In fact, if you weren't told that you couldn't free jump, and only tried to jump when you needed to jump to, you would have NO idea that you couldn't bunny hop around like convulsing jack-in-the-box. It's only when you tap the jump button while standing in the middle of a room with nothing to jump on that you DON'T jump.
So, I hear you asking, what happens when you DO press the jump button, but there is nothing to jump on?
You SWOOP!
It's AWESOME - just like a very small dash. In fact, if Garrett didn't hunker down to avoid being seen, you would say that it feels like a jump, in a way (be clear: It is NOT a jump). The swoop is used to empower stealth gameplay, and can be used in any direction - forwards, backwards, side to side. You can even rotate/change direction while you're swooping. It cannot be spammed for a continual speed boost. It offers total freedom and mobility, completely aligned with the movement and grace of a master thief who makes his living by sneaking from shadow to shadow. Those hoping for Garrett the Master River Dancer will be disappointed, everyone else has nothing to worry about.
Coincidently, we actually touch on the swoop in a Thief podcast that will be coming out on the last Friday of this month (also news: We'll be releasing Thief podcasts on the last Friday of every month starting this month!)
You SWOOP! It's AWESOME!
:rolleyes:
Edit: Sorry, didn't see this post was already quoted in the (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141890&p=2206274&viewfull=1#post2206274) other thread.
skacky on 16/8/2013 at 15:20
If I were a community manager for another company, I'd get instantly fired for this comment.
Asquith on 16/8/2013 at 15:28
Exactly! What baffles me even more than the inanity is the smugness. Since when is this normal protocol? I always assumed individuals in an "official" capacity have to maintain a "veneer" of refinement and politeness even if they are annoyed by their customers or critics in general, so as not to alienate them even further.
Raven on 16/8/2013 at 19:26
(deleted response in reaction to the idiocy here)
I have been lurking on these forums for coming on 14 years - I think that is the dumbest thing I have read.
suliman on 16/8/2013 at 22:04
Quote Posted by EM
We want you to play as a thief, but we don't want to force you to play as a thief
...unless you want to jump where Garrett the Master Thief™ wouldn't, LOL!:joke:
But seriously, more freedom of movement would always entail the ability to do more silly things. If you can walk with WASD, you can also run around in circles like an idiot. If you can aim with your bow, you can also shoot a fire arrow at your feet. And if you can jump, you can also spam the jump button.
So your way to prevent the players from doing silly stuff is to take away their freedom of movement? While you're at it, why not Press X to Perform Master Thief Headshot and Press W to Advance Along Master Thief Optimal Path? Garrett is a Master Thief, so doing anything a Master Thief wouldn't would "Break Immersion." No one in their right mind would suggest that, but this is exactly where EM's rationale would take you.
The potential for more silliness is an inescapable consequence of increased player freedom- just look at what all the games featured on (
http://it-he.org/) http://it-he.org/ have in common, for example. The more immersive a game, the more freedom it offers the player, the more ways it can be broken. This has NEVER bothered anyone- did you ever see anyone complain about how having a jump button detracts from his immersion? This shouldn't even bother EM, and I bet it doesn't, really. All this "immersion" crap is just an excuse to make the game more restricting for the player, and consequentially easier for the developer to design. This is the real reason for contextual rope arrows, contextual leaning, contextual falling off of rooftops etc.
It ties in with their insistence on full-body awareness, as well. They can't make jumping, leaning and climbing look good when performed freely, so when faced with the choice between player freedom and animations they chose to keep the animations and sacrifice OUR FREEDOM((
http://www.drinkhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/crying-eagle.jpg) *).
And now this Next Gen AAA+++ title can't offer you the freedom the original game offered 15 years ago, while the developers are talking about how they're respecting the DNA of the franchise but you shouldn't even want the silly freedom that defined it, really. Depressing stuff.
demagogue on 17/8/2013 at 01:38
I don't blame him for trying to put it in a good light. The attitude behind that line of thinking doesn't jive with me though because I don't equate free-jumping with jump-spamming, but more like trying to make jumps where it's not clear if the game intended them but it'd be a cool shortcut (and rush) if it surprisingly worked, that gets watered down if it looks like a constructed challenge.
But mostly I'm just a fan of control and gameplay minimalism (and simulationism to an extent) where for each control wysiwyg. I don't feel like that kind of thinking is out-dated, but I do recognize it's not in vogue in the current gaming culture.
jtbalogh on 17/8/2013 at 07:39
Eidos "real" reason to lockdown* jump:
- Lockdown jump to ban speed runs. Eidos should stop lying and just say "speed runs are a banned play style". While Eidos was open to many more play styles, they are deliberate in their hate on this one. Bunny hop around like a convulsing jack-in-the-box is a speed run.
- Lockdown jump to ban jumping jacks coming soon. Eidos should tell the truth and say a thief never stops and spam hops straight up and down and breaks immersion. They are anticipating a fourth element of the contextual jump button. Pressing jump when stopped will cause the thief to lie down flat on the ground and WASD moving will animate a crawl with longer outstretched zombie hands. Eidos will be nominated for a spot in Webster's dictionary with a new jump definition (jump is up, is stop, is blink, is down, is wtf?#!@$)
- Lockdown jump so "swoop" can shine. What better key to use than the most popular jump and players will naturally start swooping like a jump. People were tired of jumping all those years between 1998 and 2013 anyway, really? I doubt anyone is tired of jumping in the next 40 years, seriously.
----------------------------------------------
* A lockdown stops players from breaking the TOS (terms of service). A lockdown helps to deprecate obsolete mechanics. Why is this confusing in thief? A TOS is a multi-player protection, but Eidos decided a single-player also needs a protection from themselves, really?
