It's that damn Builder Brush causing my crashes! (Testers needed to verify)

Hit Deity on 28/2/2005 at 06:50

I can build and place brushes, then subtract them just fine (for now...), even by using the Builder Brush, so long as I keep my camera viewpoint facing away from the Builder Brush. As soon as I move my view to where the BB is about halfway visible in the 3d Portal view, it crashes when I try to subtract a brush.

I can duplicate brushes just fine while looking at them. I can build a few and randomly build the BSP here and there OK, even with the BB visible wholly or partially in the 3d view. BUT, as soon as I try to use the Builder Brush to define a brush and then hit Subtract while looking at it, T3Ed crashes.

I would like to know if those that are having seemingly no or very few problems with T3Ed can get it to crash while looking at the BB while Subtracting a brush, and what Graphics Card and maybe Driver Versions they are using. Seems fairly predictable once I figured this out. I have only used cubes so far in my tests, but it holds with all the other crashes I can remember.

Format something like this:

* ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, v5.1 Catalyst drivers. WindowsXP Home SP2
* Crashes every single time I look at the BB while Subtracting a brush.

Mandrake on 28/2/2005 at 06:59

I'll see if I can reproduce it on my system. (havn't had any crashes of the editor yet, apart from it not starting in 16 bit colour mode)

Do you have the 3d view window in "normal" or "flesh renderer" mode when you click subtract and it crashes ?

Hit Deity on 28/2/2005 at 07:01

Hadn't thought of that. I have had it in both modes quite a bit, so it may be a contributing factor. Will post tomorrow what I find. Exhausted now, and a little relieved that I at least got one more step. :sweat:

Mandrake on 28/2/2005 at 07:07

Ok, I can reproduce a SIMILAR crash.

If I subtract using the builder brush, then do a build all, then click on Undo, the editor crashes. Can you reproduce this too ? I get:

Code:

Error Message
________________________________________________________________________________
Index+Count<=Array->Num()

Call Stack
________________________________________________________________________________
0x10F36DF6 T3ED! (+0x135DF6)
(unknown)

0x10F3DDE8 T3ED! (+0x13CDE8)
(unknown)

0x114CA796 T3ED! (+0x6C9796)
(unknown)

0x10E0664B T3ED! (+0x564B)
(unknown)

0x77E3A420 USER32! SetWindowPlacement()+0x50
(unknown)

0x77E14605 USER32! TranslateMessageEx()+0x605
(unknown)

0x77E15B77 USER32! DispatchMessageA()+0xB
(unknown)

Register Info
________________________________________________________________________________
EAX=0x00000000 EBX=0x00000000 ECX=0x00000000 EDX=0x00000000
Flags=0x00000000
ESI=0x00000000 EDI=0x00000000 EBP=0x00128650 ESP=0x00128418 EIP=0x10F9CA30

System Info
________________________________________________________________________________

EXE Name : C:\Games\Thief3Edit\System\T3Ed.EXE
EXE Date & Time : 15:48:58 11/17/2004
Current Directory : C:\Games\Thief3Edit\System
PDB File (not found) : C:\Games\Thief3Edit\System\T3Ed.PDB
Current Date & Time : 08:05:23 PM 2/28/2005
Username : ---------------
Computer Name : MANDRAKE
OS Version : Windows 2000
Time Since Boot : 1 hours 23 minutes 9 seconds
Physical Memory Usage : 35
Physical Memory (Total) : 1073180672 bytes (1023 megabytes)
Physical Memory (Available) : 693489664 bytes (661 megabytes)
Swapfile (Total) : 3067908096 bytes (2926 megabytes)
Swapfile (Available) : 2782707712 bytes (2654 megabytes)
Virtual Memory (Total) : 2147352576 bytes (2048 megabytes)
Virtual Memory (Available) : 2035798016 bytes (1941 megabytes)

Standard DLLs
________________________________________________________________________________
msvcrt.dll - Version 6.10.9844.0 from C:\WINNT\system32
msvcrtd.dll - NOT FOUND
msvcirt.dll - Version 6.10.8637.0 from C:\WINNT\system32
msvcirtd.dll - NOT FOUND

DirectX DLLs
________________________________________________________________________________
dsound.dll - Version 5.3.0000001.0904 from C:\WINNT\system32
dinput.dll - Version 5.1.2600.881 from C:\WINNT\system32
d3dim.dll - Version 5.00.2180.1 from C:\WINNT\system32
ddraw.dll - Version 5.3.0000001.0904 from C:\WINNT\system32
dplayx.dll - Version 5.3.0000001.0904 from C:\WINNT\system32

Unreal DLLs
________________________________________________________________________________
Core.dll - NOT FOUND
D3DDrv.dll - NOT FOUND
Editor.dll - NOT FOUND
Engine.dll - NOT FOUND
Fire.dll - NOT FOUND
DXAudio.dll - NOT FOUND
IpDrv.dll - NOT FOUND
Render.dll - NOT FOUND
WinDrv.dll - NOT FOUND
UWeb.dll - NOT FOUND
Window.dll - NOT FOUND

App-Specific Logging Text
________________________________________________________________________________
Init: Name subsystem initialized
DestroyValue: Tried to destroy unlinked array property EnginePackages
Log: bspBuild built 10 convex polys into 10 nodes
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 9 bounds, 17 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 21 bounds, 238 hulls
Log: bspBuild built 10 convex polys into 10 nodes
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 9 bounds, 17 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 21 bounds, 238 hulls
Log: bspBuild built 10 convex polys into 10 nodes
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 9 bounds, 17 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 21 bounds, 238 hulls
Log: bspBuild built 10 convex polys into 10 nodes
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuild built 10 convex polys into 10 nodes
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 9 bounds, 17 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 9 bounds, 17 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 21 bounds, 238 hulls
Log: bspBuild built 10 convex polys into 10 nodes
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 370 hulls
Log: bspBuild built 6 convex polys into 6 nodes
Log: bspBuild built 6 convex polys into 6 nodes
Log: bspBuild built 6 convex polys into 6 nodes
Log: bspBuild built 6 convex polys into 6 nodes
Log: bspBuild built 10 convex polys into 10 nodes
Log: bspBuild built 10 convex polys into 10 nodes
Log: Found 17 coplanar sets in 69
Log: BspMergeCoplanars reduced 69->48
Log: Polys: 40 -> 40
Log: Nodes: 86 -> 73
Log: Points: 141 -> 36
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 482 -> 0
Log: Polys: 40 -> 40
Log: Nodes: 49 -> 49
Log: Points: 101 -> 101
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 208 -> 208
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 31 bounds, 357 hulls
Log: bspBuild built 48 convex polys into 49 nodes
Log: Polys: 40 -> 40
Log: Nodes: 49 -> 49
Log: Points: 101 -> 101
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 208 -> 208
Log: Found 1 zones
Log: Polys: 40 -> 40
Log: Nodes: 99 -> 49
Log: Points: 101 -> 101
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 420 -> 208
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 31 bounds, 357 hulls
Log: BuildZoneInfo: 0 ZoneInfo actors, 0 duplicates, 0 zoneless
Log: Portalized: 8 portals, 0 zone portals (0 fragments), 7 leaves, 49 nodes
Log: BspOptGeom begin
Log: MergeNearPoints merged 20/101, collapsed 0
Log: Polys: 40 -> 34
Log: Nodes: 49 -> 49
Log: Points: 101 -> 76
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 208 -> 208
Log: BspOptGeom building sidelinks
Log: BspOptGeom end
Log: Processed 31 T-points, linked: 238/238 sides
Log: Polys: 34 -> 34
Log: Nodes: 49 -> 49
Log: Points: 76 -> 76
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 423 -> 238
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 31 bounds, 357 hulls
Log: Found 9 coplanar sets in 49
Log: BspMergeCoplanars reduced 49->48
Log: Polys: 34 -> 34
Log: Nodes: 49 -> 49
Log: Points: 76 -> 31
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 238 -> 0
Log: Polys: 34 -> 34
Log: Nodes: 51 -> 51
Log: Points: 78 -> 78
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 216 -> 216
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 369 hulls
Log: bspBuild built 48 convex polys into 51 nodes
Log: Found 1 zones
Log: Polys: 34 -> 34
Log: Nodes: 104 -> 51
Log: Points: 80 -> 78
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 440 -> 216
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 32 bounds, 369 hulls
Log: BuildZoneInfo: 0 ZoneInfo actors, 0 duplicates, 0 zoneless
Log: Portalized: 9 portals, 0 zone portals (0 fragments), 7 leaves, 51 nodes
Log: BspOptGeom begin
Log: MergeNearPoints merged 0/78, collapsed 0
Log: Polys: 34 -> 34
Log: Nodes: 51 -> 51
Log: Points: 78 -> 78
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 216 -> 216
Log: BspOptGeom building sidelinks
Log: BspOptGeom end
Log: Processed 29 T-points, linked: 246/246 sides
Log: Polys: 34 -> 34
Log: Nodes: 51 -> 51
Log: Points: 78 -> 78
Log: Vectors: 29 -> 29
Log: Vertex stream 0: 437 -> 246
**** Mesh nodes: 8 (time: 0.00)
**** Mesh nodes after adding terrain: 8 (time: 0.00)
**** Mesh nodes after adding static mesh surfaces: 8 (time: 0.00)
**** Mesh nodes after pre-merge: 7 (time: 0.01)
**** Mesh nodes after height split: 7 (time: 0.01)
**** Mesh nodes after pre-merge: 7 (time: 0.01)
**** Mesh nodes after subtracting static meshes: 73 (time: 0.02)
**** Mesh nodes after removing nodes under terrain: 73 (time: 0.00)
**** Vertex elimination: 0 (time: 0.01)
**** Set node heights: 73 (time: 0.00)
**** TOTAL TIME: 0 (time: 0.07)
**** NODE BIN SIZE: 12 (time: 0.00)
**** NODE BINGRID SIZE: 64 (time: 0.00)
**** Links after adjacent link addition: 169 (time: 0.16)
**** Found stairs: 0 (time: 0.00)
**** Link data calculation (adjacent): 0 (time: 0.37)
**** Removed stair side-rails; nodes: 73 (time: 0.00)
**** Z-delta calculation (far): 0 (time: 0.01)
**** TOTAL: 169 (time: 0.54)
*** TOTAL NAVMESH BUILD TIME: 0.606445
**** Spatial DB build node matches: 0 (time: 0.00)
**** Spatial DB subdivide polys: 0 (time: 0.01)
**** node matching / dbg_find_lowest_unmatched_time: 0 (time: 0.00)
**** node matching / dbg_match_node_time: 0 (time: 0.00)
**** Spatial DB node matching: 0 (time: 0.00)
**** Spatial DB split and height adjust: 0 (time: 0.00)
**** Spatial DB small gridlet removal: 0 (time: 0.00)
**** Total # Gridlets: 20 (time: 0.00)
**** Gridlet size: 84 (time: 0.00)
**** Total Spatial Database size: 2960 (time: 0.00)
**** Spatial DB calc blocked cells: 0 (time: 0.05)
**** CalculateOpenness() / GetCellsWithValue(): 0 (time: 0.00)
**** CalculateOpenness() / dbg_no_neighbors_time: 0 (time: 0.00)
**** CalculateOpenness() / dbg_expand_all_time: 0 (time: 0.05)
**** CalculateOpenness() / dbg_delete_and_append_time: 0 (time: 0.00)
**** Spatial DB calc openness: 0 (time: 0.05)
Final NavMesh size: 16496 bytes (8372 bytes for nodes, 8124 bytes for links)
Log: bspBuildBounds: Generated 9 bounds, 17 hulls

If I don't do the build all before doing undo, then it doesn't crash. However, I can't seem to get it to crash without using the Undo function. (Yet)

Nvidia FX5900XT, 66.99 Detonators, Windows 2000 SP4

Can anyone else reproduce the crash I just found ?

doctormidnight on 28/2/2005 at 07:14

Mandrake, I just tried that and no crash.

And my second hypothesis on crashing is once again incorrect, because I just had yet another full system lock prior to trying your method.

I also tried your method, Hit Deity, and it didn't lock up until after I had subtrated a few blocks and then added some, but I wasn't looking at them in the 3d view when they were being added and subtracted.

Sapphire 9800 Pro, Cat 5.1 Omega, XP-SP2

Hit Deity on 28/2/2005 at 13:11

Damn, well at least I know how to avoid one type of crash in my setup. I'll keep looking, testing, and logging.

The Nay-Sayer on 1/3/2005 at 13:55

I had a subtracted room with an added staircase within it... I moved the staircase out into the BSP without rebuilding all and then I went to replace that original stair case with a new one... when I clicked "add" it crashed.

I restarted and unfortunately hadn't saved too often so I had to rebuild the room, I moved the addition brush out into the bsp again and went to subtract a new room and this also crashed it.

So I'm thinking it's either;

- Can't have addition brushes existing in "negative" space. If that makes any sense, as in they MUST be located in subtracted space and if you attempt to add anything new while they're out in the middle of nowhere it stuffs up.

OR;

- If you don't build all after each room it crashes... though I think I've already proved this isn't true.

Still it definately seems to be connected to subtracting/adding geometry on a level that's not all built.

Mortal Monkey on 1/3/2005 at 15:17

I'd suggest it's a bug in the renderer - I've heard reports of video cards/drivers dying, and I can reliably kill my own video driver by intersecting the builder brush with a deleted brush and performing a subtraction.

That's on a Radeon 9800 pro.

SubJeff on 1/3/2005 at 15:33

Quote:

Can't have addition brushes existing in "negative" space. If that makes any sense, as in they MUST be located in subtracted space and if you attempt to add anything new while they're out in the middle of nowhere it stuffs up.

Not true. When I subract a room and then add objects I usually move the builder brush out into "negative" space whilst I'm doing textures, meshes, lights etc. Always have done this in UEd anyway.

Bumbleson on 4/3/2005 at 00:16

So are there any news concerning this problem yet?

It happens to me too and I use a Radeon 9800 Pro with Catalyst 4.12.
If I subtract only one brush, everything's ok.
If I subtract another after moving the BB, while the BB is visible in the 3D viewport --> lockup
I can subtract several brushes without a crash as long as they're not in the 3D view.
BUT if I then rotate the 3D view to look at the already subtracted space --> lockup.

Editing is no fun with this sword of Damocles always hanging over my head. :erg: