Tocky on 14/10/2023 at 06:20
No need. They will die. They wanted that. They will get that. Some things cannot be forgiven. Now it is up to the survivors to decide whether they want peace or to die. That is up to the amount of hate they have. Live or die. Up to them.
Sulphur on 14/10/2023 at 06:43
As always, the real lesson here is to let drunk people lie.
SD on 14/10/2023 at 11:37
I never understand the point of posting respective death totals. We all know that Hamas would slaughter everyone in Israel if they could, they made a pretty good fist of doing that on a limited scale last week. Personally I would tend to think it's a good thing that Hamas lacks the means to kill even more people. They need eradicating, and then the Palestinians can try not electing Nazis next time.
Starker on 14/10/2023 at 14:44
Quote Posted by Tocky
No need. They will die. They wanted that. They will get that. Some things cannot be forgiven. Now it is up to the survivors to decide whether they want peace or to die. That is up to the amount of hate they have. Live or die. Up to them.
They will not die. At least not now. You think the people who planned this are sitting in Gaza? Fat chance. It's the ordinary Palestinian people who will die and suffer. I mean, even more than they have suffered until now. It was a catastrophe even before this, I should remind you. The blockade included basic necessities like food, clean water, and medicine. And nearly half of the people that are going to suffer are children. But of course you only have sympathy for Israeli children. The killing of Palestinian children you are merely deeming necessary because these children elected Hamas or whatever.
RippedPhreak on 14/10/2023 at 14:48
Posting the graph showing more Palestinians have been killed is irrelevant. Israel has no moral obligation to make sure they take as many casualties as the enemy does.
Talking about "children" in Gaza is not relevant; a 14, 15, 16 year old teenager with an AK-47, carrying a grenade or strapped with a C4 vest will kill you just as dead as a full-grown man. And militias in Africa have used child-soldiers even younger than that.
The Islamic faith demands that a patch of land that was once Muslim must always remain Muslim. Period. There are still Muslims that agonize over losing Spain to Christians. Osama Bin Laden referenced the "tragedy of Al-Andalus" (Spain) in his list of grievances against the West. Also, Islam demands that Muslims must not be governed by non-Muslims. All lands in the world must come under Muslim rule. Period. For these two reasons, the Muslim world will never, ever leave Israel alone. Ever.
No amount of concessions will appease them. No negotiations will work. Nothing will make them stop. Ever. Any "deal" Israel makes will be abrogated as soon as the Muslims feel strong enough to attack again. (as we have seen over and over for decades)
As for Israel's tactics, yes it is ugly. No one has yet figured out how to cleanly fight a militia that wears civilian clothing and blends into the surrounding populace, especially when the population supports them, or is at least intimidated by them (snitches get stitches). Israel has no really good options, only ugly ones. Seems like it comes down to:
1) Accept Complete Jewish Extermination
2) Put up barriers to keep out the murderers, but accept that things will boil over ever so often (the strategy of the last several decades)
3) Put an end to this once and for all by leveling every building in Gaza and giving the Palestinians the Bartender's Ultimatum: "We don't care where you go, but ya can't stay here."
It seems that Hamas boiled over once too often and a little too hard, thus the Israelis are abandoning option 2 and heading toward option 3.
Starker on 14/10/2023 at 15:07
Of the children killed so far, none of them seemed to have an AK-47.
RippedPhreak on 14/10/2023 at 15:33
It's easy to toss off glib answers when you don't have to choose between hideously bad options.
Let's say it's 1944 and you've received intelligence that Hitler is running the war out of a command center in the basement of an orphanage in Berlin. The engineering boffins have whipped up a new type of stealth plane that can sneak through Kraut AAD and plop a bomb right in his lap. Hitler never leaves this basement, and the children are there at the orphanage 24/7. Do you do it?
Tocky on 14/10/2023 at 15:42
I too have never understood the idea of proportionality knowing the other side would wipe me out and has stated that is their intention. Oh did I kill too many? Then by all means, it's your turn. I'm not so certain that go ahead and wipe me out is the way to go. I am certain that if there were only men killing bullets that those are the ones Israel would use. I am just as certain if there were those bullets Hamas would not use them.
I am a big fan of the phrase "don't start nothing and there won't be nothing" but also, "you started it, now I'm going to end it". Still, it is sad that it must be so, and I keep hearing Ruby in my head.
[video=youtube_share;KVoMrUiN4rk]https://youtu.be/KVoMrUiN4rk?t=9[/video]
Starker on 14/10/2023 at 15:47
Well, from what I've seen so far, it's easy to toss off glib answers if you only have sympathy for one side and consider the other to be irredeemably evil, no matter what their views are or how old they are.
There was a convoy leaving after Israel ordered a million Palestinians to pack up and leave. Israel targeted the evacuees moving along what was supposed to be a safe corridor and killed people, including children. Who among them was the Hitler? What exactly justified the deaths of these children? Were they evacuating in a wrong manner? Were they secret Hamas sympathisers?
SD on 14/10/2023 at 16:14
Quote Posted by Starker
Well, from what I've seen so far, it's easy to toss off glib answers if you only have sympathy for one side and consider the other to be irredeemably evil, no matter what their views are or how old they are.
There was a convoy leaving after Israel ordered a million Palestinians to pack up and leave. Israel targeted the evacuees moving along what was supposed to be a safe corridor and killed people, including children. Who among them was the Hitler? Why exactly justified the deaths of these children? Were they evacuating in a wrong manner? Were they secret Hamas sympathisers?
You have evidence that "Israel targeted the evacuees", do you?
I've seen video footage of an explosion in the convoy - perhaps the same one, perhaps a different one - and there is no projectile. So unless those clever Jews have invented a missile that is silent and invisible, I'm going to have to call shenanigans on it.
People need to start exercising that fleshy thing between their ears a bit more. It would make zero sense for Israel to bomb a convoy of vehicles doing exactly what Israel asked them to do. The idea that they would do just that does not pass the smell test, even without the conclusive video evidence.
