RippedPhreak on 7/12/2023 at 19:59
There is no black lives matter "movement." A few grifters ran off with the money, bought million dollar mansions and now it's over and done.
mxleader on 7/12/2023 at 20:42
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
There is no black lives matter "movement." A few grifters ran off with the money, bought million dollar mansions and now it's over and done.
Plus their own websites only seem to be functional during presidential election cycles. Very mysterious.
heywood on 7/12/2023 at 21:04
Quote Posted by SD
The phrase "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is much less ambiguous in the original Arabic: من المية للمية فلسطين عربية, "From the water to the water, Palestine is Arab".
It's why those who assert that its actual meaning is "Palestine will be free
from Jews", just as the Palestinian territories are presently
Judenrein, feel pretty confident in their assertion, and take a dim view of being gaslighted.
I think this ties in with the deeper problem of Westerners only consuming what is produced for them, and being deeply unaware of what is being said to a Middle Eastern audience. One only needs to look at the difference between Al-Jazeera's English language channel and its Arabic output to know that.
That just means Al-Jazeera is two-faced. That says nothing about the quality of their English language coverage.
The literal meaning of language is important. When Elise Stefanik said "calling for the genocide of Jews", a reasonable English speaker would understand that to mean publicly supporting or advocating the killing of Jews as a group because of their religious affiliation. Likewise, a literal read of "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" means a contiguous independent Palestinian state. I don't think either requires hard thinking, and I don't listen to Israeli propaganda, sorry.
SD on 7/12/2023 at 21:23
Quote Posted by heywood
The literal meaning of language is important. When Elise Stefanik said "calling for the genocide of Jews", a reasonable English speaker would understand that to mean publicly supporting or advocating the killing of Jews as a group because of their religious affiliation. Likewise, a literal read of "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" means a contiguous independent Palestinian state. I don't think either requires hard thinking, and I don't listen to Israeli propaganda, sorry.
The literal meaning of language is far less important than the actual meaning. That's the nature of dog whistles. They don't require hard thinking, but they do require awareness.
For instance, if a person says "white lives matter", well, that's true, the lives of white people do matter, but we all know what a person who says that really means, and who his audience is.
We know what a single contiguous Palestinian state would look like. A Palestinian state already exists, and there's not much "freedom" within it. It's not suddently going to turn into a progressive democracy if you make it bigger. And we got a good preview on October 7th of what would happen to any Jews who stuck around.
I would certainly recommend avoiding propaganda.
heywood on 8/12/2023 at 01:24
Well, I think the term dog whistle has been over-used. There's too much fighting over language these days and not enough reasoned debate.
Tocky on 8/12/2023 at 02:38
Quote Posted by SD
We know what a single contiguous Palestinian state would look like. A Palestinian state already exists, and there's not much "freedom" within it. It's not suddently going to turn into a progressive democracy if you make it bigger. And we got a good preview on October 7th of what would happen to any Jews who stuck around.
While that is true it hasn't been declared as such. I'm not sure Palestine would accept it's current borders and that is the problem. I suppose Israel could just declare it so without them agreeing. Be nice if they could negotiate and set it in stone. They might get even more land if they would agree not to keep attacking. Won't happen. They seem to have some idea they can win the whole state with propaganda if they can just get Israel to attack them back hard enough. Well I guess they will find out this time.
And yes, we have an idea about any jews who might stick around, particularly the young pretty females.
mxleader on 8/12/2023 at 03:18
Did someone say something about hot IDF babes?
Starker on 8/12/2023 at 03:18
There is no Palestinian state. There is Israel and there are Israel occupied territories and there is the Gaza Strip which has been completely blockaded by Israel, leading to what pretty much amounted to a humanitarian disaster even before the mass killings of Palestinians started.
Anarchic Fox on 8/12/2023 at 03:26
I'll probably lose all desire to engage if I read additional posts from you, so I'll just reply to this one.
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
...In modern left-wing thought, everything is defined by an oppressor/oppressed dichotomy.
I'm a leftist, acquainted with left-wing thought, and this is false.
Quote:
If someone is classified as "oppressed" then anything they do to an "oppressor" class is morally justified. Anything at all. Thus we get the "punching Nazis is fine" mentality (where a Nazi is anyone a leftist doesn't like).
"Punching Nazis is fine" applies to literal Nazis. I have seen Nazis, wearing swastikas, punched in accordance with that slogan. Noone else.
Quote:
Which leads to results like: Blacks rioting, looting, setting fires and destroying property over a black man killed by police is morally correct, but some Canadian truckers sitting around honking in Ottawa is considered terrorism.
None of the leftists I know -- which is more than half my friends, the rest being centrists -- endorse rioting and violence. I don't know what you're talking about with Canadian truckers, but I'm guessing it was a news story that certain demographics shared enthusiastically.
Quote:
Once the left-wing hive mind decided Israelis were an oppressor class, it became morally permissible to genocide them.
I'm disturbed by some of the rhetoric I see on the left about the conflict. However, the worst I ever see is "Israel is a colonial project, and should be decolonized" with no acknowledgment of the violence that would entail.
I doubt that the word of a leftist who knows many other leftists will budge your preconceptions. But maybe it's worth a try.
zomfg1234 on 8/12/2023 at 12:31
The fact that Jews are so hostile to anyone who doesn't support their atrocious behavior makes it even easier for everyone to despise them. The so called anti-semitism is mostly a rational disgust for the people who are disgustingly evil.
