Tocky on 17/11/2023 at 05:44
Nah. Nothing he said was untrue or even very slanted. It was about compassion and a need to seek peace for humanitarian purposes. I too expected more of a military rooting out of Hamas rather than wholesale bombing. I figured after an initial series of strikes to damage Hamas the military would go right in to hunt them down and that would happen within a weeks time not continued missile strikes for months. I know Hamas is still firing their own but that would be best dealt with in close quarter fighting. This is just thoughtless. It's poor tactically as well as heartless. The least lives on both sides taken the better and soldiers draw the fire that way instead of civilians. Sure, they will still be blamed for any mistakes they make, but the mistakes will be smaller.
And yes, I know Hamas will be using civilians as shields, even hospitals and schools as a totally heartless propaganda skirt to hide behind, but it is way past time to focus attacks on Hamas alone. Somebody has to root them out. That takes soldiers. No chance of getting hostages back without them. Not that there is much hope anyway. I understand why there is no ceasefire of troops but of missiles? That just seems superfluous.
And however this turns out Netanyahu has got to go. Him and his cabinet are failures. When is the next vote? The sooner the better. I hope everyone there learns that from this at least.
mxleader on 17/11/2023 at 12:52
Quote Posted by Tocky
Nah. Nothing he said was untrue or even very slanted. It was about compassion and a need to seek peace for humanitarian purposes. I too expected more of a military rooting out of Hamas rather than wholesale bombing. I figured after an initial series of strikes to damage Hamas the military would go right in to hunt them down and that would happen within a weeks time not continued missile strikes for months. I know Hamas is still firing their own but that would be best dealt with in close quarter fighting. This is just thoughtless. It's poor tactically as well as heartless. The least lives on both sides taken the better and soldiers draw the fire that way instead of civilians. Sure, they will still be blamed for any mistakes they make, but the mistakes will be smaller.
And yes, I know Hamas will be using civilians as shields, even hospitals and schools as a totally heartless propaganda skirt to hide behind, but it is way past time to focus attacks on Hamas alone. Somebody has to root them out. That takes soldiers. No chance of getting hostages back without them. Not that there is much hope anyway. I understand why there is no ceasefire of troops but of missiles? That just seems superfluous.
And however this turns out Netanyahu has got to go. Him and his cabinet are failures. When is the next vote? The sooner the better. I hope everyone there learns that from this at least.
I find it difficult to believe that all civilians are innocent in their involvement with Hamas. Consider that there are hospitals with tunnel systems under them filled with thousands of munitions. That kind of thing doesn't happen without people noticing or secretly helping. There may very well be civilians that are innocent and do not support the activities of Hamas. Within the confines of very small nations it would be near impossible for the everyday civilian to not know or somehow be involved with Hamas. Israel probably knows they won't have much success getting hostages back and most countries have adopted a zero tolerance towards any suspected or known terrorist organizations. They also know that a quick unplanned ground counter attack will have very bad results with Israeli soldiers. So the best option for now is to use a large amount of the expensive air toys the US has provided to Israel to crush the will of Hamas. It's an unfortunate situation for everyone involved for sure but Israel is probably getting tired of the world blaming Jews for stapling one of their own to a couple of sticks a couple thousand years ago. However, I am not saying that Israel is without fault throughout history. Israel has been known to take some liberties with Palestine knowing that they have a lot of expensive military equipment and the general financial backing of the west.
On a side note many in the US military back the IDF because the IDF keeps the US Military in great supply of centerfold like photos of hot female IDF soldiers. There are hundreds of those photos circulating Facebook vet groups and I have to say that I am a fan of the physical training programs for female IDF soldiers. I support hot Jewish IDF women roaming the streets of Bethlehem with M-16's slung over their shoulders, and they are welcome to my tax $1 dollar bills. What hot chic pics of hot Hami chics posing with RPG's has Hamas ever given the world? But I digress.
War is bad....
Tocky on 17/11/2023 at 16:32
Certainly there are those who knew about the hospital tunnels. Doctors have already lied for them. But what threats did they receive if they did not? Still, you can't just keep bombing where women and children are. Every soldier accepts their role to minimize those casualties at the risk of their own lives. It's the way it's always been else why not just one big bomb to kill everyone? And soldiers have hearts even in the midst of killing. The human ones anyway. No. It's best served all around if they stop bombing and send in troops now. Some drone strikes on fleeing Hamas notwithstanding.
War is bad. No need to make it worse.
mxleader on 17/11/2023 at 18:37
Quote Posted by Tocky
Certainly there are those who knew about the hospital tunnels. Doctors have already lied for them. But what threats did they receive if they did not? Still, you can't just keep bombing where women and children are. Every soldier accepts their role to minimize those casualties at the risk of their own lives. It's the way it's always been else why not just one big bomb to kill everyone? And soldiers have hearts even in the midst of killing. The human ones anyway. No. It's best served all around if they stop bombing and send in troops now. Some drone strikes on fleeing Hamas notwithstanding.
War is bad. No need to make it worse.
I would venture a guess though that Israel won't let up with the air campaign until either all the hostages are returned as well as they can be or the West says they'll cut military funding if they don't change their methods. It's their war and we are all just spectators to it.
SD on 17/11/2023 at 20:24
Quote Posted by Tocky
I too expected more of a military rooting out of Hamas rather than wholesale bombing. I figured after an initial series of strikes to damage Hamas the military would go right in to hunt them down and that would happen within a weeks time not continued missile strikes for months. I know Hamas is still firing their own but that would be best dealt with in close quarter fighting. This is just thoughtless. It's poor tactically as well as heartless. The least lives on both sides taken the better and soldiers draw the fire that way instead of civilians. Sure, they will still be blamed for any mistakes they make, but the mistakes will be smaller.
And yes, I know Hamas will be using civilians as shields, even hospitals and schools as a totally heartless propaganda skirt to hide behind, but it is way past time to focus attacks on Hamas alone. Somebody has to root them out. That takes soldiers. No chance of getting hostages back without them. Not that there is much hope anyway. I understand why there is no ceasefire of troops but of missiles? That just seems superfluous.
Troops are already on the ground in Gaza, but there's a limit to the extent to which Israel is going to risk the lives of their soldiers, isn't there? Enough Israelis have died already.
Quote Posted by mxleader
I find it difficult to believe that all civilians are innocent in their involvement with Hamas.
Recent poll shows 75% support among Palestinians for the actions of Hamas.
Actually I'm surprised it's as low as that, given the level of antisemitism in Palestine is 93%.
mxleader on 17/11/2023 at 20:36
Quote Posted by SD
Recent poll shows 75% support among Palestinians for the actions of Hamas.
Actually I'm surprised it's as low as that, given the level of antisemitism in Palestine is 93%.
Hamas is the IRA of the Middle-East.
SD on 18/11/2023 at 15:18
I wish Hamas were like the IRA. For all their faults, the IRA never had the complete annihilation of all British people as their overriding aim. They simply desired possession of the entirety of their ancestral lands. In this regard, Sinn Fein/IRA is more analogous to Likud, though they would obviously reject the comparison entirely.
Starker on 18/11/2023 at 16:23
Destroying people's homes and killing their family members rarely makes them positively disposed against people perpetrating those actions. And then people like SD take that animosity and justify the actions based on it, so that the cycle can continue on and on for perpetuity.
SD on 18/11/2023 at 18:52
Quote Posted by Starker
Destroying people's homes and killing their family members rarely makes them positively disposed against people perpetrating those actions. And then people like SD take that animosity and justify the actions based on it, so that the cycle can continue on and on for perpetuity.
You certainly do have a gift for confusing cause and effect.
The reason there are no Jews living in Gaza is because they were ethnically cleansed from the area in 1929. If you're keeping count, that's a full 18 years before the modern state of Israel even existed.
The state of Israel is not the cause of ethnic conflict in the region, it's the only thing keeping 7 million Jews safe from genocide. Had it existed 10 years earlier, it would have saved another 6 million from it.
Things have changed somewhat since September. Thought you should know.
