nuckinfutzcat on 20/12/2007 at 21:23
No, it's an indication that something is of or pertaining to iron.
eg. That shovel you hit me with sure is irony,
Tonamel on 20/12/2007 at 21:28
The use of words
for other than their literal intention!
Now THAT.
IS.
IRONY!
/bender
ZylonBane on 20/12/2007 at 21:36
Quote Posted by Tonamel
/bender
Also, sadly, wrong. Although there is some meta-irony to be found in a running gag about people misuing "ironic" ultimately getting wrong the supposed correct definition.
D'Juhn Keep on 20/12/2007 at 22:29
the cat has been caught by the very person who was trying to catch him
demagogue on 20/12/2007 at 22:43
If you want to get past the surface meaning of what's "ironic", it gets pretty complex ... like ZB says it's much more than just reversing a meaning. People usually have a positive point in using it, like undermining the authority or logic of something not by arguing against it, but holding it to the light so that it hangs itself. And even in there being different types of irony -- rhetorical irony, dramatic irony, situational irony -- you also have to look at the speaker's purpose (e.g., dramatic irony can be making a rhetorical point at the same time.)
The closest you'll get to the state of the art is probably a book like (
http://www.amazon.com/Irony-Language-Thought-Cognitive-Science/dp/0805860622) this.
Also a classic work on it is Kierkegaard's
Concept of Irony, which is mostly dealing with rhetorical irony, and it's main point is to force people to be subjective in accepting information, to think for themselves and take responsibility for it ... because if they just objectively took it in based on the arrogant authority of the source, the irony is designed to make it inescapable for them to admit that all hell would break loose.
AxTng1 on 21/12/2007 at 00:28
Thanks for your replies. Mostly. tree wtf.
Now I think I have a better understanding of Irony, but I still have a problem. How to explain it to someone with a short attention span who persists in misusing the word? (I knew he was, I just couldn't exaplin it to him properly). Telling him "you know it when you see it" wasn't getting me anywhere.
ZylonBane on 21/12/2007 at 00:46
Just tell him that irony is getting run over by an ambulance.
Angel Dust on 21/12/2007 at 00:51
Isn't there also a form of dramatic irony in say a film or play where the audience knows more than the characters? Like at the end of 'Romeo and Juliet' where the audience knows Juilet has faked her own death but Romeo does not.
Edit: Anothing distinction between sarcasm and verbal irony is that sarcasm is supposed to ridicule. But then some people do consider some things that are called sarcasm are infact verbal irony. Nobody ever seems to be in agreement.
Scots Taffer on 21/12/2007 at 01:07
Quote Posted by Angel Dust
Isn't there also a form of dramatic irony in say a film or play where the audience knows more than the characters? Like at the end of 'Romeo and Juliet' where the audience knows Juilet has faked her own death but Romeo does not.
Yes, that's "oh god please dont do that oh it's a horrible mistake damn you cruel world" kind of irony.
Seriously, Shakespeare knew how to pile that shit on mercilessly.
