TOOTO on 20/5/2023 at 04:50

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Introduction:

As I'm new here, I might as well break the ice by posting a MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT. I first stumbled on this site a few years ago, when I was just getting into Deus Ex. I kept coming across posts when looking up things about the game and found some helpful and interesting (and ancient) discussions. After lurking a while, I recently decided to register. Coinciding with this, I also finally got around to starting the Thief series. So far I have completed Thief: Gold and I'm almost done with Thief II: The Metal Age. I've got a few things I want to say about the games and I guess this is a good place to share and record my thoughts.

I'm going to look at each stage from both games in order and write whatever comes to my mind. This isn't really a review or depthful analysis of either game, just my first impressions for anyone who cares to read my ramblings. I don't think any of you need this but, obviously, spoilers for both games. First, a look at Thief: Gold, which I played entirely on normal mode.



0 - A Keeper's Training

Standard tutorial level. Kind of explains Garrett's background, being an ex-pupil of the Keepers. Not much to say about this one.

1 - Lord Bafford's Manor

Instantly fell in love with the game after this level. It felt great to sneak around some dude's mansion, loot him until he has nothing left, and get out with all the guards incapacitated. Iconic map, i.e. a map that I can very easily imagine being seared into my brain as time passes by and becoming a classic (like Liberty Island or UNATCO Headquarters in Deus Ex). At first it seemed very difficult with all the swordsmen and archers around but once I started exploring the mansion a bit and moving more carefully, I was able to take down each guard one by one.

2 - Break from Cragscleft Prison

In hindsight the zombies were not bad. However, at the time I could hardly stand them. I wish I could see my own face the moment I realised I couldn't just kill them and move on. Otherwise a great level. The factory portion was alright. As I rarely use moss arrows—even now when I have a bit more experience with the game—it was a bit challenging to get around the cling-clanging metal floors but I made it through without too much effort. The prison section is where this level really shines in my opinion. There's plenty of darkness around so if you're attentive you'll get through no problem. The atmosphere in the prison is great, especially around the temple/office area.

3 - Down in the Bonehoard

Good mission but I didn't really get to experience it much since I dashed through that level as fast as I could haha :laff:. I think I'd have appreciated the level a lot more if it was later in the game, but I think it's a bit too much to ask a beginner who has no experience with zombies to face a level filled with them. I liked the sound of the Horn of Quintus, I can see why it pacified the burricks. That said, when I saw the pacified burricks, I didn't realise they were different and thought that they'd attack me, so I slaughtered them. I guess it was for the better since they would've attacked on my way out (was escaping a requirement on normal?). The room on the first floor of the main catacomb with like 10 zombies just sitting around and a piece of loot in the middle was an evil trick for the devs to play on a poor rookie like me. I can see myself thoroughly enjoying this level on a replay, though.

4 - Assassins

A return to the rob-a-rich-dude format. A welcome one at that. The biggest challenge was dealing with the guards outside the mansion, on the outer walls and in the walkway just in front of the front door. I didn't realise the guy in the basement was Ramirez and spent 30 minutes trying to figure out where to find his purse was :p. I guess I found the mission easy becaue I tanked through the latter half of it. By the end I was out of healing items and ate all the food items with maybe 1 or 2 HP left.

5 - Thieves' Guild

I have mixed feelings about this one, and reading online, it seems so do many other people. It's a good map overall but certainly the sewers get confusing at times. Either that or backtracking through the sewers just becomes arduous. However the other portions of the map make it worth it in my opinion. The mansions are fun to explore and, again, are a return to the no non-human, just stealing stuff format. I think when I came to the banner room I thought , "This room seems pointless; too pointless," and then I realised you could slash banners. Fun mission, very easy to get stuck, but overall a decent addition in Thief: Gold.

6 - The Sword

This mission started out normal. As I roped up the balcony to get in the mansion, I noted the tilted window. I made my way down and went through the mansion, fairly standard stuff. Then I get to the garden an it seems relatively standard. I remembered in the cutscene Garrett mentioned Constantine's mansion was "maze-like," so I just assumed he meant the garden as I got lost there once or twice. I think somewhere in the garden was access to an upside down room, but that didn't phase me much either.

And then I went upstairs. The tone shifts very suddenly on the second floor. My favourite memory of this map is when I went into the room with the face behind the door, I closed the door behind me and started reading some journal or diary, and after a minute or so when I decided to leave the way I came I got the biggest video game scare of my life. I forgot which way I came and opened the face door LOL. That shook me up for a few moments and I was definitely on-edge for the rest of the level. No video game has ever made me so anxious as this level's third floor. At this point I was getting fatigued and just wanted it to end. By the time I reached the space room I was convinced that Constantine was certifiably mad. This honestly has to be one of my favourite levels in the game, very well-designed and the atmosphere is perfect.

7 - The Haunted Cathedral

First, the cutscene. The Constantine reveal was very exiting. When Constantine said, "I am a collector, Mr. Garrett," I was so pumped that the rest of the game would involve me going around getting exotic artifacts for Constantine in equally clever maps as the previous, simultaneously getting paid heaps of cash. Obviously, that did not happen, but in an alternate universe I think that might have made for a great game. By this point I was used to zombies, and although the map was large and at times confusing, I made it through with little to no problems. Figuring out that there was a window at the back of the Cathedral where I was supposed to go took me longer than I care to admit.

8 - The Mage Towers

Another one of my favourites. A comprehensive map is much more than you normally could ask for in Thief: Gold, so that was a pleasant surprise. This level kind of spoiled the ending for me, because one of the statues in it says something along the lines of, "Betrayal will be your undoing, Garrett." I (correctly) assumed it to be foreshadowing and realised that the only person Garrett is close enough to be betrayed by would be Constantine. So I guess that's one disavantage of Gold vs. TDP, it semi-spoils the ending if you pay attention. Still, there was no way I could have guessed how I would be betrayed.

I loved the elemental towers, how each had their own set of challenges and keys. My favourite tower was probably the air tower. I wish the Hand Brotherhood made a reappearance in the second game, the lore around them seemed pretty cool and so did the dynamic between each of the four groups of elemental mages. Probably my favourite of the religious groups in the series so far. Maybe they'll reappear in Thief: Deadly Shadows?

9 - The Lost City

Fun mission but a bit long. Lots of walking. The highlight of this mission was jumping through and avoiding traps in Va-Taraq's tomb (which I understand is kind of empty because the water talisman has its own level in Gold). At first when I heard the burricks I thought their footsteps sounded like zombies but I was relieved to find no undead in this mission.

10 - Song of the Caverns

I was originally scared to go in the caverns, probably because I was under-prepared, but when I got to the end I realised how short the underground section was and how I could have looked for more loot instead of rushing through. Raoul was a fun character. The opera house is a great map, pretty straight forward, but it's a long mission if you want to get everything.

11 - Undercover

This is my favourite mission in the game. Probably because I decided to turn the roleplaying up a notch. Because Garrett's supposed to be undercover as an acolyte, and acolytes can't speak on the temple grounds, I challenged myself to turn off my inner monologue so long as I was still in disguise. It was a fun challenge. It took me ages to complete the level, though, because I was pretty thorough and knocked out everyone.

12 - Return to the Cathedral

This mission taught me how to better deal with the undead. I take back what I said about The Sword, no video game has ever made me as nervous as this level did. Actually, I didn't even start the level. I entered the cathedral, saw all the haunts, and noped out. I took a break from playing for a couple days and returned with more confidence. I restarted a couple times but with some effort, and an FAQ to help with Brother Murus' bullshit, I was finished.

13 - Escape!

Reading other people's opinions on this level I have to say I disagree. By this level I think most players should be used to monsters and there's plenty of equipment around to take them out. I enjoyed the underground section, the main floor not so much because it was impossible to hit those frogbeasts with a broadhead before they hit me. I was happy to see the garden and top floors blocked off because I was not in the mood to re-loot all of Constantine's mansion.

14 - Strange Befellows

I think by this point the Hammerites started to grow on me. I don't really dislike 'em anymore. Anyway this level is alright. The High Priest can fuck right off though. I boarded the raft with him and when the raft didn't move I assumed I was supposed to swim back. I also figured if I accidentally drowned him I'd have to reload and walk all the way back, so I should probably save. And guess who accidentally quicksaved in the water and had to start the whole mission all over again? Serves me right for save scumming, I guess.

15 - Into the Maw of Chaos

This level's alright, not really any challenge. Badass ending, though.

16 - Blooper Reel

Funny bonus level, I doubt I've seen everything in it but I did the best I could with T-posing guards and monster-chests chasing me. Anyway, that's it for Thief: Gold, here's what I've got for Thief II: The Metal Age, which I played on expert.



1 - Running Interference

Pretty standard first level. I love the new map system which shows to which rooms you've been to as well as which one you're currently in. It's a quicker way to get your bearings without pulling out the compass. Also noticed the graphics look better, which makes sense. A shame the game doesn't have a tutorial proper, though. What if someone who never played the first game decided to start here? Plus it would be a great place to show returning players some of the new mechanics and updates to the lore.

2 - Shipping... and Receiving

A great mission overall. I couldn't find any key for Builing B so getting into the warehouses was troublesome as they don't seem to have any lockboxes. Plenty of darkness so it makes for a very fun stealth mission.

3 - Framed

Another very fun mission. It took me a long time to get through but the concept of going through an entire mission without being seen or knocking anyone out, as someone playing on expert for the first time, was pretty novel to me. I can't recall any other video game, even other stealth games, that ever required this of me. I couldn't figure out how to get into the armoury but I think I covered pretty much the entire map. This map isn't really about thieving but more about espionage, and I hope when I get around to playing Thief: Deadly Shadows, they decide to go more in this direction.

4 - Ambush!

This mission is a little bit of a drag. It's the first introduction to enemies with "hard hats", who cannot be cudgeled, even from behind. I think it's cool to introuce a hardier enemy, but at least introduce a way to deal with them (non-lethally) as well. Sure there aren't many, and those that you do run into you can mostly just run around, but it still kinda sucks. Anyway, the level gets better when you get home and have to deal with the guards posted there. Then you make it back toward Shalebridge on (if you were a diligent thief) pretty much empty streets. The map itself is beautiful, with the side alleys and canals and whatnot.

5 - Eavesdropping

This level was crazy. This is the first introuction to Karras' Children, as well as Karras himself. I had to restart a couple times. I made my way to the basement where I learned water and these dudes' asses don't mix well, which was useful information. The haunted crypt gave me trouble until I realised I could backstab Hammer Haunts. The ritual that one masked mechanist was performing was pretty messed up. At that point I was full anti-mechanist and pro-Hammerite. I cleared the level and headed to listen to the meeting.

As soon as I heard Karras say the word "demonstration," I thought I knew what was up. What he said next confirmed it, "Meanwhile I will retrieve our voulnteer. A most unfortunate guttersnipe who waits just outside." I was horrified as I assumed I was the volunteer. As soon as he said that I bolted as far as I could from the door, failing the mission because I was too far from the meeting. As well, I wasn't paying attention to the location of the key in the meeting. I hope whoever thought it was a good idea to make it an objective to put the key back has a terrible morning today.

6 - First City Bank and Trust

Great premise for a level, but the map might be a bit too large or twisty-turvy. It's very easy to get confused in this level. I think it took me four hours to complete. But it has its highlights, such as breaking into the main vault. It does get fatiguing by the time you reach the vault (if, like me, you want to loot the rest of the map first), so when the action really happens you just want it to be done with.

7 - Blackmail

Benny.

8 - Trace the Courier

Okay but on a serious note, Blackmail is a crazy level once you get to the third floor. I was not prepared for the sheriff's murder. I made my way to his suite and I was all over that crime scene. It felt like some Batman/Detective/Ace Attorney shit. I even went to the attic and noted that they must've escaped via the roof because otherwise they would've gone past me. Plus the balconys form a sort of step-like structure so it would be easy to get down. The motive also made sense if you read stuff back in Framed. Anyway, most of the level's a fun house break-in. Standard stuff for Thief games.

Trace the Courier on the other hand sucked balls. A slow, boring mission. I have nothing else to say about this level.

9 - Trail of Blood

Also kinda sucked. Probably because I rushed through it once I saw the apebeasts. Seeing the maw and ?maybe? recognising parts of it was exciting. I killed all the eyeball flowers, which was kind of a waste of time.

10 - Life of the Party

Great mission but very difficult to make progress. Love the concept of hopping across roofs but in practice the not-so-invisible invisible walls you're confined by are in a very weird shape and it makes finding where you need to go to get to where you want very challenging. Most of the time I spent in this mission was wasted going back and forth and back and forth trying to find what I might have missed, not in the tower itself.

Also, piss off Viktoria, didn't you try to kill Garrett? Anyway I have to work with her to continue so I acquiesce.

The ending was also a bit anti-climactic. With everything in the tower incapacitated there weren't any new enemies spawned in or anything. I was hoping the tower would go into an actual lockdown with all exits closing and you had to leave some other way, and I was hoping more enemies would spawn within. Instead you get a couple archers on the way back to the bell tower. Filthy mechanists.

11 - Precious Cargo

Fun level, but long. I think that's becoming a pattern in this game. Finding the globe was a bitch and a half. And poor Lotus.

12 - Kidnap

This one would be really fun in theory but because I fumbled the ball it was not. Cavador's route was listed somewhere, and I decided to go backwards on that route so that eventually I'd run into him. Well, I did, unknowingly, and took him out at Site 4. I remembered some conversation about him wearing a gas mask, which he was. So I decided to check if it was Cavador. Firstly, the lights in Site 4 were not green. Second, when I picked up his body, I could've sworn it said Corpse, not Cavador. So I assume it's just some dude who I'm meant to leave behind.

I get through the whole level and figure he's retired to Site 5. I checked Site 5 top to bottom, in every nook an cranny, maybe 5 times. Then I go searching for him. It's only when I checked 2 other sites when it occurred to me that maybe that gas mask guy was Cavador. A long walk and a few annoying attacks from guards that I missed later, sure enough, there was Cavador.

13 - Casing the Joint

Kind of boring and long. Not really sure why. Ash, you are a bastard.

14 - Masks

So all the doors have locks now? And the three duplicate keys in the mission open like one door. This one could have been a great level if not for this. The locked doors add nothing to the level. It doesn't make it easier for you to get caught, or challenge you in any other way. All it does is slow you down and frustrate you. Also, this level is buggy. The camera control console that controls the two by the lift did not disable either of the cameras. And who leaves a safe unlocked? I searched all over for a key, because why would the safe be unlocked? Everything else in this damn level is locked. So is the safe, right? So the picks don't work. Maybe the key is on the third floor, I'll be back.

So the third floor is alright. Without looking it up I would not in a million years have guessed that the coloured lights in the foyer disabled the gas in the mask rooms. I thought it was some kind of puzzle for a secret. Anyway, I just went through and got the masks. The rope arrows were acting weird so I just leaned forward and grabbed the masks rather than disabling the gas. I cleared the level and figured out the safe was unlocked the whole time. But then I checked my objectives and I don't have all the masks? 30 minutes later and turns out I missed one.

15 - Sabotage at Soulforge

I haven't completed this one yet but I'm working on it. My first impression of the level was similar to Return to the Cathedral. They give you almost nothing and pit you against a hundred robots. What's the point of all the loot from the previous level if I can't use it to splurge on fire arrows? But, after realising the only way forward is to sneak around most of the bots and conserve your ammo, things seemed much more doable.

Anyway, I've manufactured the guiding beacon and slotted into signal slot B. Apart from the signal tower right next to the signal slot, I still have to switch the towers. I might take a break from this level for a couple days, like I did with Return to the Cathedral, as I think the level gets more heavily fortified around this part of the map.

Coming from a Deus Ex background, this level is a lot like Area 51. Karras is definitely a Bob Page style character, and I've seen other people online describe this level as sort of an "obstacle course", which is a term I might use to describe Area 51. The only difference is that JC has every augmentation and lots of firepower in the finale for Deus Ex.



Conclusion

Anyway, those are my first impressions of these games. While they both occasionally have annoying sections, they're great games and I'm wondering why I didn't play them earlier. I think the games might benefit from having loot carry over between levels, since I only realised my "saving up" was doing absolutely nothing halfway through the second game. I also think the second game has less opportunities for swordfighting, especially on Expert, than the first game, which was a fun mechanic.

I guess now all I have to do is wrap up Thief II. Maybe someday soon I'll move on to playing Deadly Shadows or maybe some mods/fms. That, or I could play the rest of the Deus Ex series, since I bought the rest of it on sale recently. I'll probably take a break from gaming, but I can confidently say I'll be replaying these games sometime in the future.

I'm excited to join the discussions here, and can't wait to get to know some of you guys :D.

Hit Deity on 21/5/2023 at 01:46

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It's situations like Soulforge and not being able to buy useful stuff (like water arrows) that I'm tempted to exploit the duplication bug.. I mean, I've earned those extra arrows, so why not? ;-)

styora on 18/6/2023 at 15:50

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Great to see someone trying out the games for the first time even though they may seem pretty outdated today at a first glance.
If you liked both games I highly recommend trying out FMs. Thief (TDP) was one of the first games I've ever played and I fell in love with it. Then I started playing FMs a few months ago and it just blew my mind at how much more was possible. Doesn't really matter which aspects you liked about Thief, there are more than enough FMs to suit your taste. If you need a starting point (https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149562) https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149562, I've been using this list from DirkBogan here and plan to try out newer releases and lesser known FMs after that.

Weasel on 21/6/2023 at 18:24

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It's great to hear a fresh perspective on these games after all these years. Just reading your short recaps brought back a lot of memories.

Prepare to be disappointed with Thief: Deadly Shadows, as a lot of us were 20 years ago. It does have some great parts, but overall I don't think it holds a candle to the first two games.

Fan missions on the other hand... I dare say you have to play them. There are literally dozens of fan missions (and even campaigns of them) that (IMO) surpass the quality of almost every mission in the original games. I would say that only a handful of the missions you've played would even make it to a list of the top 50 Thief missions, once Fan missions are thrown into the mix. Some really talented people spent years making Fan missions, and it shows.

I'm sure everyone would have their own recommendations, but there's one that sticks out in my mind as a single mission example that shows what Thief fans can make: Ominous Bequest.