SubJeff on 13/9/2005 at 11:59
Sorry, got on an INXS tip there.
I've been doing some flunkadelic bsp work (rather than funkadelic because--->) and had hella crashes. One of the issues was I forgot you need to work in wireframe mode when you do serious bsp work.
But I've noticed something else - I HAVE to Build All after each Intersect and Subtract else I get a crash. This is true even in wireframe mode.
Now is this also true with Deintersecting and Adding? Or with any other brush operations? I find I can Subtract a space and happily Add to it all day long, even in texture usage mode, without a crash. But only if I'm not Intersecting. There may be other brush operations that people have noticed cause crashes without build all or other precautions.
If anyone has any can they post them? And can we have these warnings in the wiki please?
Aside from that Intersect and Subtract is the bomb. I see your windy twisty road/cavern/tunnel/vaginal metaphor (yeah I went there, you know it's true cuz you played T1 and 2) and raise you a frikking SPIRAL into HELL. T3 level design was so pedestrian. Too much city and street stuff (olol, pedestrian. I crack me up).
SubJeff on 13/9/2005 at 13:25
Additional: if I Desintersect, Add, Build All then realise I made a mistake using the back button causes a Viktoria error. :(
ProjectX on 13/9/2005 at 15:52
that's why the primary rule of Unreal Editing is to ALWAYS save when you think something you do might be a bit dodgy. Personally I save before every build (something I learnt the hard way from Unreal Ed version 2.0) and rely on autosave to get most of my major changes.
Krypt on 13/9/2005 at 19:24
I wouldn't reccomend making complex BSP brushes with the Intersect and Deintersect tools. Make your stuff out of lots of smaller brushes and copy/paste them around. Crashes and BSP holes like you're seeing are why the BSP in the T-DS maps was relatively simple. You should be using static meshes for most of your detail, because the engine doesn't handle complex BSP very well at all.
Bardic on 13/9/2005 at 19:45
I used to have crashes all the time. I stopped using intersect except for basic clips. I vertex edit and snap when I need to and barely ever crash now because of BSP issues.
ProjectX on 14/9/2005 at 06:51
Quote Posted by Krypt
I wouldn't reccomend making complex BSP brushes with the Intersect and Deintersect tools. Make your stuff out of lots of smaller brushes and copy/paste them around. Crashes and BSP holes like you're seeing are why the BSP in the T-DS maps was relatively simple. You should be using static meshes for most of your detail, because the engine doesn't handle complex BSP very well at all.
Yeah I remember a quote from cliffyB (Epic Games chairman or summit, and also a level designer and general pimp and stuff) that Engine 2 wasn't made for BSP. BSP was for stuff like the basic outlines for the rooms, therefore it should be kept REALLY simple, its meshes that should make up the detail.
Of course, Unreal Ed also came with a BSP -> static mesh converter, which was handy.
str8g8 on 14/9/2005 at 08:33
(
http://www.planetunreal.com/phalanx/tut%27s/tutorial_bsp.htm) check out this page if you haven't already.
Of particular interst is this:
Quote:
I general never intersect/desintersect anything anymore and I advice you to avoid it as well but in a rare case intersecting a problem area might fix it. On the other hand there are people who really intersect everything. Please stop doing that, especially when you don't know how intersecting exactly works. Intersecting things also makes it very hard to later on adjust and fix the area because you have to remake pretty much everything.No chance on moving things anymore.
I think the bit in the wiki that advises on intersecting everything should be removed(!)
cheers
str8g8
SubJeff on 14/9/2005 at 10:02
Well it's certainly true that you have to know exactly what you mean to do if you are going to intersect because you'll never be able to "fix" it properly.
But for the BSP work I've been doing it's essential to make things look natural and if I don't interect the angles will look silly. It's that or lots of vertex editing and that cause more crashes than anything I've experienced so far.
I could also take the time to do lots of BSP cutting but I'm using that for other things anyway.
One thing I'm not sure of is when told "Don't use too many BSPs" - how many BSPs is too many?
