taffernicus on 10/9/2025 at 07:50
(
https://apnews.com/live/israel-qatar-hamas-mideast-updates) https://apnews.com/live/israel-qatar-hamas-mideast-updates
that was near al udeid airbase which is home not only to the CAOC but also to CENTCOM
so israel has expanded its military operation beyond gaza, attacking lebanon, iran, yemen, syria and now qatar
Turkey should not be their safe haven (I remember very well the rumor that Hamas leadership moved to Turkey)
is there still a room for negotiation?
SD on 10/9/2025 at 14:38
Not negotiating with terrorists is a pretty standard policy for democracies.
DuatDweller on 10/9/2025 at 21:30
I'm actually considering this war and the war in Ukraine as the three legs that would start WW3.
I was forgetting Venezuela / USA war.
Starker on 23/9/2025 at 12:28
UN commission, based on (
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session60/advance-version/a-hrc-60-crp-3.pdf) a legal analysis of the conduct of Israel in Gaza, has concluded that Israel has been committing genocide in Gaza:
Quote:
(
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds)
GENEVA - Israel has committed genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel said in a new report today. The Commission urges Israel and all States to fulfil their legal obligations under international law to end the genocide and punish those responsible for it.
The Commission has been investigating the events on and since 7 October 2023 for the last two years, and concluded that Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces committed four of the five genocidal acts defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, namely killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the destruction of the Palestinians in whole or in part, and imposing measures intended to prevent births.
Explicit statements by Israeli civilian and military authorities and the pattern of conduct of the Israeli security forces indicate that the genocidal acts were committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip as a group.
“The Commission finds that Israel is responsible for the commission of genocide in Gaza,” said Navi Pillay, Chair of the Commission. “It is clear that there is an intent to destroy the Palestinians in Gaza through acts that meet the criteria set forth in the Genocide Convention.”
“The responsibility for these atrocity crimes lies with Israeli authorities at the highest echelons who have orchestrated a genocidal campaign for almost two years now with the specific intent to destroy the Palestinian group in Gaza,” Pillay said. “The Commission also finds that Israel has failed to prevent and punish the commission of genocide, through failure to investigate genocidal acts and to prosecute alleged perpetrators.”
The report is based on all the Commission's prior investigations, as well as factual and legal findings in relation to attacks in Gaza carried out by Israeli forces, and the conduct and statements of Israeli authorities from 7 October 2023 until 31 July 2025. The Commission's findings are based on a comprehensive examination of the underlying acts of genocide (actus reus) and genocidal intent (dolus specialis).
In establishing the genocidal acts, the Commission examined the Israeli military operations in Gaza, including killing and seriously harming unprecedented numbers of Palestinians; imposing a total siege, including blocking humanitarian aid leading to starvation; systematically destroying the healthcare and education systems in Gaza; committing systematic acts of sexual and gender based violence; directly targeting children; carrying out systematic and widespread attacks on religious and cultural sites; and disregarding the orders of the International Court of Justice.
In establishing genocidal intent, the Commission applied the “only reasonable inference” standard set forth by the International Court of Justice in the case of Bosnia v. Serbia. The Commission analysed statements made by Israeli authorities and concluded that those statements are direct evidence of genocidal intent. The Commission also analysed the pattern of conduct of Israeli authorities and the Israeli security forces in Gaza, including imposing starvation and inhumane conditions of life for Palestinians in Gaza, and found that genocidal intent was the only reasonable inference that could be concluded from the nature of their operations.
[...]
SD on 23/9/2025 at 14:56
The report certainly is damning, but not in the manner its authors hoped. If anyone has actually read any of it rather than just the headline, I think they'd be even less persuaded than they were before. They basically redefined genocide as anything in which civilians are killed, so I look forward to that label being applied to every single war ever.
Regardless though, the idea that this was an independent commission is ludicrous. The three members all have a history of bias, some of it truly grotesque. Miloon Kothari has questioned whether Israel should be a member of the UN, and claimed that social media is controlled by the "Jewish lobby". Chris Sidoti is on the council of the Australian Centre for International Justice, which describes Israel as a settler-colonial apartheid regime. and which supports the BDS movement whose goal is the disestablishment of Israel. And the chair Navi Pillay is an ANC activist who has accused Israel of stealing Palestinian organs, among other things.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't believe that anyone who opposes the very existence of Israel, or who utilises antisemitic tropes, could ever be described as independent where Israel is concerned.
RippedPhreak on 23/9/2025 at 15:38
The UN is completely irrelevant and powerless. No UN resolution has any binding force unless the USA chooses to enforce it. You may think a UN resolution has a moral force behind it, but...that and $5.00 will get you a cup of Starbucks coffee.
Starker on 23/9/2025 at 23:12
How anyone can read the report and come away with the impression that this is just normal warfare is beyond me.
Widespread destruction of civilian housing, including the bombing of whole city blocks and apartment buildings, leading to massive casualties.
Displacement of civilians on a massive scale with upwards of 90% of population having been displaced, many multiple times.
Deliberate killing of civilians, including children, journalists, and medical workers.
Deliberate destruction of schools, hospitals, churches, historical sites, museums, bakeries, grave sites, fields of crops, etc.
Denial of aid to the population, including food, water, and medicine, leading to starvation and spreading of diseases.
One item in the report -- special infant milk being blocked from entering Gaza is of particular note. What could be the possible military purpose of banning infant formula?
Also, this UN commission is far from being the only one to have reached this conclusion. Human rights organisations, including B'Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights-Israel have called it a genocide, as have a number of prominent Holocaust researchers and experts on genocide, including among others Omer Bartov:
Quote:
(
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov)
[...]
Knowing that I had previously warned of genocide, the students were especially keen to show me that they were humane, that they were not murderers. They had no doubt that the IDF was, in fact, the most moral army in the world. But they were also convinced that any damage done to the people and buildings in Gaza was totally justified, that it was all the fault of Hamas using them as human shields.
They showed me photos on their phones to prove that they had behaved admirably toward children, denied that there was any hunger in Gaza, insisted that the systematic destruction of schools, universities, hospitals, public buildings, residences and infrastructure was necessary and justifiable. They viewed any criticism of Israeli policies by other countries and the United Nations as simply antisemitic.
Unlike the majority of Israelis, these young people had seen the destruction of Gaza with their own eyes. It seemed to me that they had not only internalised a particular view that has become commonplace in Israel - namely, that the destruction of Gaza as such was a legitimate response to 7 October - but had also developed a way of thinking that I had observed many years ago when studying the conduct, worldview and self-perception of German army soldiers in the second world war. Having internalised certain views of the enemy - the Bolsheviks as Untermenschen; Hamas as human animals - and of the wider population as less than human and undeserving of rights, soldiers observing or perpetrating atrocities tend to ascribe them not to their own military, or to themselves, but to the enemy.
Thousands of children were killed? It's the enemy's fault. Our own children were killed? That is certainly the enemy's fault. If Hamas carry out a massacre in a kibbutz, they are Nazis. If we drop 2,000-pound bombs on refugee shelters and kill hundreds of civilians, it's Hamas's fault for hiding close to these shelters. After what they did to us, we have no choice but to root them out. After what we did to them, we can only imagine what they would do to us if we don't destroy them. We simply have no choice.
[...]
On 10 November 2023, I wrote in the New York Times: “As a historian of genocide, I believe that there is no proof that genocide is now taking place in Gaza, although it is very likely that war crimes, and even crimes against humanity, are happening. [...] We know from history that it is crucial to warn of the potential for genocide before it occurs, rather than belatedly condemn it after it has taken place. I think we still have that time.”
I no longer believe that. By the time I travelled to Israel, I had become convinced that at least since the attack by the IDF on Rafah on 6 May 2024, it was no longer possible to deny that Israel was engaged in systematic war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocidal actions. It was not just that this attack against the last concentration of Gazans - most of them displaced already several times by the IDF, which now once again pushed them to a so-called safe zone - demonstrated a total disregard of any humanitarian standards. It also clearly indicated that the ultimate goal of this entire undertaking from the very beginning had been to make the entire Gaza Strip uninhabitable, and to debilitate its population to such a degree that it would either die out or seek all possible options to flee the territory. In other words, the rhetoric spouted by Israeli leaders since 7 October was now being translated into reality - namely, as the 1948 UN Genocide Convention puts it, that Israel was acting “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part”, the Palestinian population in Gaza, “as such, by killing, causing serious harm, or inflicting conditions of life meant to bring about the group's destruction”.
[...]
Subjective Effect on 25/9/2025 at 22:13
It's not normal warfare. Who ever said it was? Lol. No one has ever had to fight terrorists with a massive tunnel network under the civilian population.
Have they? Hmmmm?
Nicker on 26/9/2025 at 03:52
Agreed. Not normal warfare at all. Whatever that is.
On the other hand, nobody has engaged in genocide, the systematic targeting of urban residential areas, and war crimes against civilians on such an industrial scale, since WW2.
Have they? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
Atrocities on BOTH SIDES.
PigLick on 26/9/2025 at 12:53
For fucks sake give it up you two, it's getting boring and neither of you have any real points to make anymore.
