Subjective Effect on 4/3/2025 at 21:08
I've watched that footage and I have questions.
But first let me say this - the fatal shot was reckless and manslaughter at the very least. I don't think they could see that far or thorough the door but there even so it was unnecessary and disgustingly reckless.
That soldier should be prosecuted.
Now, the questions.
Who the f is the guy in the white car? Why is he hanging around kids in residential neighborhood when he knows he's been shot at/chased? And doesn't he put a weapon into his waistband at admit 2 minutes 10 seconds in?
What the actual F is going on there?!
Subjective Effect on 5/3/2025 at 07:24
Also - let's talk about power armour or magic bullets?
What would happen??
Be honest.
SD on 5/3/2025 at 13:05
It must go without saying that it's tragic when civilians get caught between terrorists and the authorities in the fog of war. This is however surely markedly different from people going out with the intent to kill or harm civilians - and their government rewarding them with a monthly stipend when they do.
Sam Harris last year summed up the moral gulf as well as anyone ever has:
Of course, the boundary between antisemitism and generic moral stupidity is a little hard to discern - and I'm not sure that it is always important to find it. I'm not sure it matters why a person can't distinguish between collateral damage in a necessary war and conscious acts of genocidal sadism that are celebrated as a religious sacrament by a death cult. Our streets have been filled with people, literally tripping over themselves in their eagerness to demonstrate that they cannot distinguish between those who intentionally kill babies, and those who inadvertently kill them, having taken great pains to avoid killing them, while defending themselves against the very people who have just intentionally tortured and killed innocent men, women, and yes... babies.
If you have landed, proudly and sanctimoniously, on the wrong side of this asymmetry - this vast gulf between savagery and civilization - while marching through the quad of an Ivy League institution wearing yoga pants, I'm not sure it matters that your moral confusion is due to the fact that you just happen to hate Jews. Whether you're an antisemite or just an apologist for atrocity is probably immaterial. The crucial point is that you are dangerously confused about the moral norms and political sympathies that make life in this world worth living.
Starker on 5/3/2025 at 15:52
Gaza has been pulverized. There were no great pains taken to avoid killing civilians, which is also reflected by the massive numbers of civilians killed, a large proportion of whom have been women and children. People pretending that one side consists of mostly evil callous baby murderers while the other side is mostly made up of good unintentional baby murderers is perhaps the greatest moral failing I've encountered so far.
These policies are crafted to inflict damage on the populace. Preventing aid from reaching Gaza is calculated to increase suffering to Palestinians. And this is not even a secret -- Israeli politicians have openly been talking about turning Gaza into a tent city and killing off Palestinians with starvation and disease. And of course there's nothing unintentional about torture in Israeli prisons or the cruelty on display by everyday interactions between Israel's security forces and ordinary Palestinians -- you don't attack the pallbearers of a journalist (who was killed by an Israeli sniper and whose rescue was prevented by sniper fire to make sure she would die) because you just unintentionally let the baton in your hand fall in the wrong place -- this is deliberate and calculated cruelty.
Aja on 5/3/2025 at 15:57
Over 17,000 children in Gaza were killed, including at least 700 babies (yes... babies). People aren't protesting because there was a response; they're protesting because the response was utterly disproportionate. Sam Harris obviously has an axe to grind, and I think the yoga pants comment reveals what it really is.
SD on 5/3/2025 at 20:36
Civilians die in war. Every war. Even if I was as willing as some to take Hamas's casualty figures at face value, it is a fact that minors constitute 47% of the Gaza population, and it would be astonishing if they did not feature among the deceased. Especially considering that Hamas both recruits child soldiers en masse
and deliberately puts children in harm's way for propaganda purposes.
But for the sake of argument, let us take the Gazan death numbers at face value. Adult males constitute 26% of the population of Gaza. However (
https://i.imgur.com/o3kf71o.jpeg) Gaza's own figures from three different sources, for the three months between April and August 2024, show that adult males constitute between 45% and 64% of fatalities. If this isn't proof that targeting is discriminate, I don't know what is.
Starker on 5/3/2025 at 21:34
In the entire 3 years in Ukraine, Russia has killed hundreds of children in cowardly attacks on civilian infrastructure, entire towns have been razed to the ground. Russia has bombed schools, hospitals, train stations, residential buildings, and tortured civilians and captured combatants alike. Yet the destruction and devastation in Gaza absolutely dwarfs the horrific things Russians have done as far as civilians are concerned. There is nothing discriminate about things like reducing entire residential areas to rubble, bulldozing over fields of crops, or even blowing up tombstones of dead Palestinians.
Nicker on 6/3/2025 at 13:57
Quote:
Civilians die in war. Every war.
Everybody's doin' it, doin' it, doin' it... so I guess it's OK.
Quote:
If this isn't proof that targeting is discriminate, I don't know what is.
How about not deliberately targeting schools, apartments and hospitals?
Hamas and Likud are a symbiotic parasite on humanity. It's doesn't matter which one is better or worse, they can't exist without each other and blame for the sum total of their destruction is shared equally between them.
SD on 6/3/2025 at 18:17
Quote Posted by Starker
There is nothing discriminate about things like reducing entire residential areas to rubble, bulldozing over fields of crops, or even blowing up tombstones of dead Palestinians.
There are more than 400 miles of terror tunnels underneath Gaza, some of them wide enough for vehicles. That's three miles of tunnels per square mile. What do you think happens to the buildings above when those tunnels collapse? What do you think happens when armaments illegally stored in residential areas cause secondary explosions?
This is your problem. You see the destruction, and blame it on Israel, without any remote interest in digging down further. Israel has blown up its fair share of buildings, no dispute there; when those buildings are being used for terror purposes, that's reasonable. But a significant proportion of them have been brought down because of the actions of Hamas and other armed groups. Bear in mind these tunnels are so flimsily contructed, they can even collapse (
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35427572) when it rains.
Quote Posted by Nicker
How about not deliberately targeting schools, apartments and hospitals?
If they're being used for military purposes, which they are, then they become legitimate military targets. You can check your Beginner's Guide to International Law if you don't believe me. Blame the people illegally using them as military installations rather than the people legitimately targeting those military installations.
Subjective Effect on 6/3/2025 at 19:24
You really think that if Israel wanted to kill the Gazans they'd only have killed that many?
I guess they're really the most incompetent genociders ever.
Oh wait! Unless they are sniping kids, then they are eerily accurate.
