SD on 31/1/2025 at 19:17
Just to reiterate, Jews are a tribe of people, some of whom are religious, and many of whom are not. Their right to inhabit the region derives from the fact that they are native to the region, not from anything divine. Jews = Judeans. That's what it means. Religion is a complete red herring, introduced to the discussion so this can be reduced to the level of a simple religious conflict, like Muslims and Hindus in India, or Muslims and Christians in Nigeria, or Muslims and... well, just about everyone else. It's not - it's a conflict between an indigenous people in their homeland of many thousands of years, and the people who conquered the entirety of North Africa and Western Asia.
Subjective Effect on 31/1/2025 at 22:59
Quote Posted by Nicker
And when you say crap like this "I finally understand why they need to "resist"! It's resistance against beach front swimming pools!" It sort of makes your anti-settlement stance look like a ruse.
Two things can true at the same time shocker!
It's a good idea, imho, to give all the WB to the Palestinians as per the 1967 borders and it's ALSO true that The Gaza Strip was NOTHING like an open air prison/concentration camp.
I credited you with more intelligence than this. I will revaluate as it appears necessary.
Qooper on 31/1/2025 at 23:30
Quote Posted by SD
Just to reiterate, Jews are a tribe of people, some of whom are religious, and many of whom are not. Their right to inhabit the region derives from the fact that they are native to the region
I think you said it well, SD. I'd like to add that Israel was initially willing to compromise and live in peace with their Arab neighbours. Even many Arabs in the land were willing to live with their Israeli neighbours in peace, but their governments told them to get out while they'd wipe Israel to the sea - then they could come back. Egypt, Jordan (Transjordan at the time), Syria, Iraq and Lebanon attacked Israel in 1948, and the small outnumbered surrounded Israel won the war against all odds.
Israel has been surrounded by hostile Arab nations from the start, and that continues to this day. However, Arabs in Israel have more rights than Arabs in surrounding Arab countries. But do Jews thrive in Arab countries? Well, in most Arab countries Jews face persecution, do not have equal rights or are forced to submit under the jizya tax. To these Arab nations the problem is that Israel exists. The chant "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" means free of Jews, which isn't talked about. But Israel has a right to exist.
I stand with Israel. Shalom from Finland!
heywood on 31/1/2025 at 23:55
Quote Posted by Harvester
I don't want to start a religion debate here (and will bow out if this turns into one), but I think this is not entirely correct. Many (not all) Jews and Christians believe that about the God of Islam, yes. It's mostly left-leaning Christians that believe Allah is the same God, not conservative ones. But the majority of Christians will probably attest that religious Jews believe in the same God as they do, just that they are wrong not to recognize Jesus as the promised Messiah.
So, assuming you ascribe to that belief, please answer this question for me: Did a second god suddenly come into existence ~1400 years ago, or was there always another god who chose not to reveal himself until ~1400 years ago?
Qooper on 1/2/2025 at 00:17
Quote Posted by heywood
So, assuming you ascribe to that belief, please answer this question for me: Did a second god suddenly come into existence ~1400 years ago, or was there always another god who chose not to reveal himself until ~1400 years ago?
If there's enough interest in this topic, we could make a separate thread so as not to derail this one. What do you think?
Harvester on 1/2/2025 at 00:31
Quote Posted by heywood
So, assuming you ascribe to that belief, please answer this question for me: Did a second god suddenly come into existence ~1400 years ago, or was there always another god who chose not to reveal himself until ~1400 years ago?
Sorry, not biting, I have too much on my plate with work stress and sick family members to engage in this kind of discussion that as Nicker said are not relevant to this topic and are best left to another thread.
Also, I’ve not said anything about what I personally believe, so do not make assumptions please. I’ve only corrected Nicker about something I believed him to be wrong about, and he rightly said those are details best left to another thread, and I agree with that.
Starker on 1/2/2025 at 01:49
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
The Gaza Strip was NOTHING like an open air prison/concentration camp.
You are like those people who point out that Auschwitz had a swimming pool, ignoring completely that it was meant for the wardens and a select few privileged prisoners.
Subjective Effect on 1/2/2025 at 07:08
These are so obviously different situations you don't deserve any response.
In fact, your comparison is contemptible and bordering on Holocaust apologist type nonsense.
Starker on 1/2/2025 at 11:49
No, it is your comparison that is contemptible. You are trying to make Gaza seem like some kind of a vacation resort when the facts speak for themselves -- the majority of Gazans have been sunk into deep poverty due to Israel's policies and Israel itself has expressed in leaked cables that this was precisely their intent.
Also, you seem to be getting something mixed up -- I'm not apologising for the Holocaust. I'm likening you to a Holocaust apologist, because what you are doing is trying to diminish the suffering and hardships of Gazan people by posting about things that are not representative of the conditions there, just like a Holocaust apologist would.
Subjective Effect on 1/2/2025 at 13:26
The Gazans are poor because of their leadership that priorities spending on terror infrastructure and weapons above all else , and you know it. Those tunnels cost millions and millions. All those resources, money, manpower. Be honest with yourself and with us.
If Hamas wanted to raise everyone or of poverty they wouldn't be letting them build pools and luxury car dealerships. It's a farce.
