Starker on 9/10/2024 at 14:40
As for Israel's regard for civilian life, here's one report (NSM-20) on a selection of incidents that brings it into serious question. If you want to get a clearer picture of what's happening, you would want to go over every one of them, but I'll just highlight one of them for the sake of brevity.
Quote:
(
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/NSM20-TF-Report-_-Final.pdf)
On 3 November 2023, around 4:30pm, an IDF airstrike hit a marked ambulance just outside of Gaza City's al-Shifa hospital. Human Rights Watch reviewed video footage and photographs taken shortly after the strike and found at least 21 dead or injured people in the area surrounding the ambulance, including 5 children. An IDF spokesperson said in a televised interview that day that: “Our forces saw terrorists using ambulances as a vehicle to move around. They perceived a threat and accordingly we struck that ambulance.” Human Rights Watch found no evidence that the ambulance struck was being used for military purposes, but instead verified video showing a woman on a stretcher in the ambulance.
I would suggest that this is not, in fact, "fighting back". It's plainly and simply "fighting".
And also, this is one of the other ways Israel is fighting Palestinians in Gaza:
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In general, the Israeli government has instituted practices that violate standards relevant to the delivery of humanitarian aid referenced in NSM-20. In addition to blanket bans and attacks on humanitarian aid convoys, Israel's screening procedures for aid entering Gaza have imposed restrictions inconsistent with the above standards. Israeli authorities have prevented humanitarian goods including certain anesthetics, water purification tablets, and maternity kits from entering Gaza and turned back entire truckloads of aid due to the inclusion of such goods. Indeed, according to a USAID cable shared with HuffPost, health, sanitation, and hygiene items “are amongst the most rejected for import into Gaza.”
Subjective Effect on 9/10/2024 at 16:18
Human Rights Watch? Lol. You mean the organization that's been accused of bias against Israel, ignoring anti-semetism and being in the pocket of Arab nations? Ha ha.
Shall we defer to UNRWA next, or go straight to Hamas' Ministry of Truth, er I mean Propaganda, er I mean Health :rolleyes:
Nicker on 9/10/2024 at 18:40
No, let's just take Likud's word for it.
:rolleyes:
Sunny day
Sweepin' the clouds away...
RippedPhreak on 9/10/2024 at 20:53
Quote:
give Palestinians citizenship and a political say in the circumstances of their existence like any normal country, so disputes are handled through the political system and not terrorism.
If you reward mass slaughter attacks with political concessions, that will train them to murder more Jews to get more concessions.
demagogue on 9/10/2024 at 20:58
(1) Citizenship isn't a "concession". It's the foundation of all government and politics to begin with.
(2) That's why it's necessary that you criminally prosecute the people that commit mass slaughter.
RippedPhreak on 9/10/2024 at 21:19
This isn't a matter of police dropping by in a cruiser to knock on their doors and read them their rights. Hamas dresses just like everyone else and lives next to everyone else, so you don't know who they are unless they are a high-ranked leader. And the other Palestinians aren't going to tell you who is Hamas, because they are more scared of Hamas than of you.
Anyway, if the Palestinians murder ~1,300 people and you start giving them what they want, they will think "Wow, what will these soft fools give us if we kill 3,000 of them next time?"
demagogue on 9/10/2024 at 21:44
You're saying that police can't arrest murderers because they look like other people?
You know that's what police do.
But back up, the first problem is that there are no effective police, because there is no state apparatus.
That's my point. You're effectively arguing that making a state responsible for this population is absurd because there isn't a state that's responsible for them.
It's a circular argument that doesn't give you or anyone that thinks that way a way out of it.
What, are Palestinians going to be stateless, without police, without accountability, with a terrorist organization administering them forever?
That's the solution to the terrorism?
Never mind the implication of your argument that when Israel murders 45,000 civilians, the majority women and children, you give them what they want?* That's giving the right incentives?
*a situation where Hamas will never be prosecuted and exist forever due to the aforementioned reasons; some victory.
RippedPhreak on 9/10/2024 at 21:54
No, police cannot enter a neighborhood filled with hostile armed people that outnumber them, to make arrests. It would quickly become a free-fire war zone, so you might as well send in the military in the first place.
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What, are Palestinians going to be stateless, without police, without accountability, with a terrorist organization administering them forever?
That is their problem. Israel asks nothing of them except "stay away from us, and don't kill us." Anything else is up to them to decide. I imagine the Palestinians could form a police force this very day if they wanted. What would happen when they tried to arrest a Hamas member I'll leave up to your imagination.
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when Israel murders 45,000 civilians, the majority women and children, you give them what they want? That's giving the right incentives to the set of actors?
If it was up to me, Israel would not get one dime of US taxpayer money. Same as Ukraine. So I would not be "giving them" anything at all. Our beloved US leaders don't see it that way, apparently.
Subjective Effect on 9/10/2024 at 22:09
Quote Posted by demagogue
when Israel murders 45,000 civilians, the majority women and children
I really think you need to check these numbers. 45k isn't any figure reported at all. Maybe 41k. And you're saying they are all civilians? So who TF is firing rockets the other day? Civilians? Israel has missed ALL of Hamas? It's also not murder if it's during war, is it?
It's so bizarre with you people. Every single response is peppered to hell with errors. Some might call that lies, others - "propaganda". I try to be charitable with your motives though, so I must assume failure to pay attention or Long Covid of the brain, really.
