Nicker on 1/10/2024 at 13:12
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This is highly disingenuous. The bombs were not "random" but were small focused explosions highly likely to injure only the person carrying them, and those people were in Hizbollah's command structure because that is who ordered the pagers.
So, the bombs were justifiably indiscriminate? And if the collateral damage is just other Muslims, that's acceptable?
Do you really think that such acts will do anything other than create temporary disruptions in the command structure. We can be certain it will inspire new recruitment. It always does. Doing the same shit over and over expecting a novel result. You know what that is the definition of, right?
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No, it's attacking Houthi rebels in Yemen, who have been attacking Israel totally unprovoked.
We aren't bombing your hospitals and schools, only the bad people hiding underneath them.
As for "unprovoked", that is itself a "highly disingenuous" characterization of Likud's slow-burn aggression.
Subjective Effect on 1/10/2024 at 17:12
Why is Israel held to such ridiculous standards? The comms attack was highly, highly targeted. Name a more targeted attack, really. And why do you think the collateral damage would just be too Muslims??
Of course the Houthi attacks are unprovoked. Did Israel attack them? No.
Jason Moyer on 1/10/2024 at 17:32
The thing that struck me when the first attack happened (the pagers) was seeing videos of people standing nearby looking like they were trying to control their laughter. The Lebanese don't want those fuckers in their country either.
Starker on 2/10/2024 at 06:14
Compared to bombing schools and hospitals in Gaza, the terror attacks in Lebanon have had far less civilian casualties and setting off an explosive device in a bus just doesn't compare to dropping off bombs on an entire block of residential buildings. Also, so far Israel isn't trying to blockade Lebanon or trying to starve Lebanese people or kill them with disease. If Israel would have fought Gaza in that way, there would be way more support and way less criticism.
The problem is what comes after. The policy of "escalate to deescalate" so far seems to be, in fact, "escalate to escalate". Israel is now planning ground raids to Lebanon and looks to be thinking about occupying Lebanon again or at least launching a ground invasion. This is the kind of thing that created Hezbollah in the first place.
Thor on 3/10/2024 at 11:10
Quote Posted by Nicker
For decades, if not millennia, two factions (with identical and impossible goals of exterminating the other) have engaged in violent conflict over lands around shores of the eastern Mediterranean Sea. Each faction purports to have deep, irrefutable, ancestral claims to the land, supported by the unconditional blessings of an almighty and merciful god, yet each think nothing of committing crimes of cruelty against their enemy or subjecting their own people to danger, deprivation and death, in order to advance their political and religious aspirations.
One side is wealthy, has superior military might and can afford a go-slow strategy of gradual strangulation. It says little and does much; expanding aggressively, disproportionately retaliating against any resistance, punishing entire families and villages for the alleged crimes of individuals, fighting rocks with tanks and enforcing a casualty ratio well above twenty-to-one.
The other faction is impoverished, out gunned and stupidly relies on desperate, cynical acts of provocation, which dependably result in a worsening of conditions for the very people they claim to protect. They hide fighters in homes, hospitals and schools, then complain about the inhumanity of civilian casualties. They repeatedly ignite armed conflicts which they have no hope of winning and which they must know will only add to the devastation of their lands and people. They use overt savagery against foes and friends alike, then wonder why they cannot elicit universal sympathy for their cause.
On October 7, 2023, after years of grinding and intensifying oppression by the former, the latter again provoked a hopeless war, expecting a preposterous, novel outcome (an enduring victory) despite no change in initial conditions or tactics. The stronger faction unleashed its predictable, amplified and deadly response, demanding that millions of people flee their war machine or accept responsibility for being trapped in its path.
Misery, disease, pain and death. A necessary price that others must pay, so that the two factions can assert the authenticity of their claims and the justification of their evil deeds. While neither side has any hope of annihilating the other, they pursue this goal with gluttonous delight, until exhaustion forces them to negotiate a peace, which both are already planning to violate.
Like furious toddlers, they cannot imagine a world where they do not get their way. Neither do they understand that, while they cling to the robes of their vengeful Father God, they will never, ever grow into adult human beings.
---------
How that other thread should have opened, IMO.Indeed, this might be the only war in history that I find to be kind of worthwhile, because shit is fighting different brand of shit and results in the lessening of total shit on this earth. At least that's the idea. In reality everyone will get hit in some way or another.
Nicker on 5/10/2024 at 18:22
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Why is Israel held to such ridiculous standards?
What ridiculous standards? I hold all aggressors on both sides to the same standards.
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The comms attack was highly, highly targeted.
But the targets were embedded randomly among non targets. What if you were in an elevator with a target when their pager exploded? Would you still be so enthusiastic if you were at risk? Would it depend on whether you were injured or just spattered with blood and body parts? Be honest now.
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The thing that struck me when the first attack happened (the pagers) was seeing videos of people standing nearby looking like they were trying to control their laughter.
Do you have a link to such a video?
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Indeed, this might be the only war in history that I find to be kind of worthwhile, because shit is fighting different brand of shit and results in the lessening of total shit on this earth.
Except the opposite is what happens and has happened for thousand of years in the middle east. This is an ancient, tribal squabble which just keeps getting worse. But the "one state solution" folks there, and in here, keep insisting that they are right,
because god.Still waiting for our own "one staters" to provide details about how that will actually roll out, other than just more of the same.
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The problem is what comes after. The policy of "escalate to deescalate" so far seems to be, in fact, "escalate to escalate". Israel is now planning ground raids to Lebanon and looks to be thinking about occupying Lebanon again or at least launching a ground invasion. This is the kind of thing that created Hezbollah in the first place.
Precisely. This is true for both sides. The difference is the quality and quantity of military resources each have. I have no doubt that if Hamas et al had the means to flatten Israeli cities, they would not hesitate.
DuatDweller on 6/10/2024 at 01:29
At first exploding Pagers, then exploding Radios....
heywood on 6/10/2024 at 10:41
Quote Posted by Thor
Indeed, this might be the only war in history that I find to be kind of worthwhile, because shit is fighting different brand of shit and results in the lessening of total shit on this earth. At least that's the idea. In reality everyone will get hit in some way or another.
Be careful what you wish for. What if this is the second front of the third world war, with Taiwan coming in a few years and perhaps South Korea too. Why would China be propping up a theocracy like Iran, buying their oil and keeping them supplied with materials and goods? Chinese companies are partners in Iran's space/satellite program even. One can imagine missile technology too. It's hard to ignore the massive military buildup in China under Xi and how much more active they are in espionage and cyber warfare. They're deploying all new nuclear forces and their navy is now largest in the world. I feel like Putin and Khamenei have been given the green light and material support to pursue campaigns in eastern Europe and the Middle East to soften us up, deplete our resources, and make us war weary. This new axis is also waging a classic propaganda war designed to distract us and undermine our motivation. Meanwhile China's military readies itself to take Taiwan and control Southeast Asia. I hope I'm just paranoid.
Subjective Effect on 8/10/2024 at 15:37
Quote Posted by Nicker
What ridiculous standards? I hold all aggressors on both sides to the same standards.
People expect Israel to not fight back. You know it's true.
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But the targets were embedded randomly among non targets. What if you were in an elevator with a target when their pager exploded?Would you still be so enthusiastic if you were at risk? Would it depend on whether you were injured or just spattered with blood and body parts? Be honest now.
The targets were terrorists. Hizbollah is a terrorist organisation. Everyone in Hizbollah is a member of a terrorist organisation. If I were in a lift with a member of Hizbollah and their pager exploded and injured me I'd be furious. At Hizbollah, for having terrorists in lifts with other people.
Why are you so upset that terrorists were injured?
It's FAR better to get them that way than to bomb them and cause massive collateral damage, isn't it?
Starker on 8/10/2024 at 22:15
Mass killings of civilians with bombs, starvation, and disease is not "fighting back".
