Springheel on 15/11/2013 at 21:45
Quote:
This is directly contradicted by all sources I know of that actually talk about the developer's enthusiasm or lack thereof for past games
Sure, they claim to love the originals, to "respect the DNA", etc, etc. That's marketing 101.
But everything else I've heard from them during interviews suggests otherwise, right down to getting the names of the games wrong. I've heard devs openly mocking the control scheme of the original games, complaining about the difficulty, and just generally going on about how it's not 1999 anymore, doncha know.
(I'm sure there ARE Thief fans on the team, which is why we get things like a recreation of the Keeper library (pointless in a rebooted universe where Garrett wasn't trained by Keepers) and Burrick head models. But the people calling the shots? Not so much.)
kora on 15/11/2013 at 23:41
Quote Posted by Pyrian
As a literal fact, eh? :joke:
Literary.. Shakespeare would be rolling in his grave.
Chade on 17/11/2013 at 23:01
Quote Posted by Starker
I don't think anyone is claiming that the game rips off other games because it plays exactly like Ass Creed or Dishonoured. It's the fact that the focus mode seems to have been lifted wholesale from games like Tomb Raider, the "free running" is pretty reminiscent of Ass Creed, the running from fire while buildings collapse around you action sequence is something that could fit right in <s>Uncharted</s> Ass Creed as well, and the art style/aesthetics just scream Dishonoured.
As far as game mechanics go, you can take any individual mechanic you like, separate it form everything else, abstract away anything that doesn't suit you, and claim it looks like something else. But I'd say that if you do that and end up with a different game for every mechanic, it's probably a sign you're doing something wrong.
As for the art style, well, there's certainly a lot of similarities. But EM have been at this game for, what, five years now? Dishonored has been out for a year? Maybe they changed the overall art direction four years into the project. But it's not like convergent evolution is a rare thing.
Actually, I think this leads to an interesting question. Let's imagine someone went to you and told you "pick any setting you like to transplant the thief universe into, as long as it's instantly recognizable". What setting would you choose? Bleak Victorian is a pretty good choice IMO. Would you prefer generic dirty medieval? What else would be on your list?
Quote Posted by Springheel
Sure, they claim to love the originals, to "respect the DNA", etc, etc. That's marketing 101.
But everything else I've heard from them during interviews suggests otherwise, right down to getting the names of the games wrong. I've heard devs openly mocking the control scheme of the original games, complaining about the difficulty, and just generally going on about how it's not 1999 anymore, doncha know.
The sources I'm thinking of are not EM staff claiming to love the originals, but other people talking to EM staff and claiming that they are enthusiastic and knowledgeable about the originals. There's not many such sources. An early RPS article, indirectly in an early polygon article IIRC, the EM mods. Has Beleg mentioned anything? Not many. But all positive.
And look, you've just openly stated that you hear a range of comments from the devs, some praising the originals, some "bashing" (except they're usually just saying they couldn't get away with those elements nowadays) specific aspects in order to justify new design decisions, and what do you do? You discard the good statements as just marketing, but take the negative comments to heart! Of
course you think they don't like the originals!
Either look at both type of statements as marketing, or believe both. The first is wise, the second is naive, but at least neither is biased.
Starker on 18/11/2013 at 06:23
Quote Posted by Chade
As far as game mechanics go, you can take any individual mechanic you like, separate it form everything else, abstract away anything that doesn't suit you, and claim it looks like something else. But I'd say that if you do that and end up with a different game for every mechanic, it's probably a sign you're doing something wrong.
I'd say the resemblance is uncanny. Furthermore, I'd say these mechanics are unnecessary. What does focus mode really add besides taking away from the realism? It's at best a hand holding feature. Same goes for the "free running" mode which is less about player skill and more about making your character look good.
As far as ending up with a different set of games for each mechanic goes, I'm not sure how that's a sign of doing something wrong. It doesn't have to get all of them for a single source. The meat of the issue is that these mechanics seem to be taken from the popular, action heavy titles.
Quote Posted by Chade
Actually, I think this leads to an interesting question. Let's imagine someone went to you and told you "pick any setting you like to transplant the thief universe into, as long as it's instantly recognizable". What setting would you choose? Bleak Victorian is a pretty good choice IMO. Would you prefer generic dirty medieval? What else would be on your list?
Why does it has to be instantly recognisable? How about using the original Thiefverse with its blend of styles?
Springheel on 18/11/2013 at 16:01
Quote:
what do you do? You discard the good statements as just marketing, but take the negative comments to heart! Of course you think they don't like the originals!
While I can't pretend to be free of bias, I think general, abstract statements ("We love the original games") mean much less than specific, detailed comments, like mocking the number of lean options in T1/2. And I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that getting the names of the original games wrong is "marketing".
SubJeff on 18/11/2013 at 16:15
What was TDS called in French?
Springheel on 18/11/2013 at 19:29
Someone already tried that excuse...didn't pan out.
gnartsch on 18/11/2013 at 19:31
Quote Posted by NuEffect
What was TDS called in French?
The game itself uses
Dark Project : Deadly Shadows as the french game title.
SubJeff on 18/11/2013 at 19:38
Quote Posted by Springheel
Someone already tried that excuse...didn't pan out.
Not an excuse, a query.
Look at what Thor 2 is called in Germany.
Vae on 18/11/2013 at 19:43
"dark" in French is "sombre".
"deadly" in French is "meurtrier".
So no, there isn't any translation issue...it's simply a reflection of EM's contempt towards the classic games.
