Nameless_Voice on 7/9/2005 at 23:15
Quote Posted by Lady Rowena
What about if I have my own replacements for some objects? Just to make an example: I made a new texture for the fancy bed, will the EP override it if it has the same name?
No, not unless you put your texture into Txt instead of Txt16. (Txt16 always overrides Txt.) DarkLoader or GarrettLoader will always use the ones from the FM first and foremost.
Quote Posted by Lady Rowena
What am I to do if I don't like some objects of the EP to prevent the replacement? I know, they are beautiful, :) but there are some that I don't like.
Include a copy of the original LGS model, I guess.
Honestly, I don't know what to do about the problem of people who don't want to have their missions use the enhanced objects. I could release it as a DromEd-only pack, but bear in mind that there'll always be at least one person (me!) who will see your FM as it would look with the pack installed anyway...
Eshaktaar on 9/9/2005 at 13:33
Well, I don't think that bothers anybody if individuals tweak their Thief installation with upgraded stuff. Others might have created their own health shields, or replaced the Hammerite/Mechanist spell attack swoosh with Ryu's HADOKEN! attack sound from Street Fighter ;)
That's perfectly fine by me, as they did those changes consciously and know that it's possible some things might look odd because of their tweaks.
However, if the pack gets released for the public, I predict a large percentage of players will download and install it. Now we are facing two problems:
Quite a few already released FMs that contain custom stuff will have graphical glitches (wrong UV mappings on objects, custom textures that don't show up because the upgraded object uses different ones) that can't be prevented for reasons that have already been mentioned. I can't speak for others of course, but I wouldn't be all that happy to know that parts of my mission(s) suddenly might look screwed for the majority of players.
Problem two: Any FMs that are in progress need to be tested with the upgrade pack if the author wants to make really sure everything looks alright (meant in the technical sense, not if one likes certain improved objects or not). I have a lot of custom objects that use Thief's standard textures, for example. Since it's not guaranteed that upgraded textures which override their old counterparts are exact replacements, I have to include all the standard textures I'm using. But that's not enough: Some of the upgraded objects might have different UV mappings, and the old textures (which are now in the zip and will override those from the upgrade pack) would look wrong on them, thus I have to include the old objects as well. Making this additional work necessary is suboptimal, IMO.
Nameless_Voice on 9/9/2005 at 23:51
Okay, the latest demo version can be grabbed (
http://www.thiefmissions.com/models/EPBeta1.zip) here (thanks to Epithumia). The file is around 8MB and has most of the models made by other people on this thread as well as my own. I didn't include the demo mission this time, so you'll have to test it ingame. I recommend the OMs.
Points of note:
I spotted a bug in the Armoire model after uploading the pack, I'm not going to reupload just for that.
Also, the dark rusty metal door textures are liable to change (Since every time I finish another I mess the palettes of all of them...)
Regarding different-looking textures: I think the only solution is to just leave Vigil's barrel and lamp textures out of the Enhancement Pack, and maybe to eventually include others which look more like the originals (but since I personally like Vigil's textures, it's certainly not at the top of my ToDo list.)
Again, the point of the grimy lamps is a bad example; let alone the presence or absence of grime, those lamps are
rusty. They don't belong in rich homes at all.
For the most part, I've tried to keep the UV mapping the same for all the enhanced objects, though there are a few exceptions (apples, crates, chandelier, and also Vigil's footlockers)
As for Lady Rowena's wine barrels, I would argue that while the original textures don't look as out of place there, they still
do look out of place. I think a new barrel texture for wine cellars is probably in order.
Any of you people willing to have a thorough look through the Enhancement Pack and tell me which objects you feel are too different in style?
Bear in mind that, if the EP was released and certain missions could 'opt out', people would probably find that mission much less visually pleasing after having seen what th Dark Engine is capable of.
Actually, I think a good solution to avoid any trouble is to
only use custom resources in your FM. With the amount of custom stuff that's around, it shouldn't be that difficult, and will certainly make your FM stand out more...
Quote Posted by "Vigil"
Unfortunately it's not as simple as that; because it has a different lock from the original, my seachest also uses a different joint setup (one matching the regular footlocker-chest), and so it could never be a drop-in replacement without changing the gamesys or entirely changing how the lock works. And I doubt anyone would want that hideous padlock thing back
I think all it would take would be to swap the two joints around and change the dimensions. I might poke around with it myself if you don't want to and don't mind.
R Soul: While playing 'Assassins', I noticed that your painting models with backs on them cannot be looked through behind in the secret passages. This is not so good...
Targa on 10/9/2005 at 02:46
Quote Posted by Nameless_Voice
Points of note:
I spotted a bug in the Armoire model after uploading the pack, I'm not going to reupload just for that.
Was that mine or made by someone else? If mine, what's the bug?
Vigil on 10/9/2005 at 10:26
Quote:
I think all it would take would be to swap the two joints around and change the dimensions. I might poke around with it myself if you don't want to and don't mind.
No, unfortunately it takes more than that - the joint setup in the archetype for the old seachest specifies different angle limits and directions than what the new seachest uses. This was why I decided to say to hell with it and use the footlocker joint setup in the first place.
Nameless_Voice on 10/9/2005 at 23:07
Quote Posted by Targa
Was that mine or made by someone else?
No, it was mine. (I'll probably need a new texture for it, too. That one was made from some random image I found on Google Images, and doesn't match the old armoire very well.)
Vigil: I might take a look at it anyway.
Quote Posted by "Eshaktaar"
To be quite honest, and on the risk of sounding arrogant again, for a few of the replacements that are already in the pack I'd rather prefer the old objects.
*ducks away to avoid being hit by various rotten fruit and vegetables*
Not very helpful. Could you please be a little more specific so I can do my best to improve those objects?
And everyone else, could you please tell me what you liked and what you didn't?
Eshaktaar on 10/9/2005 at 23:26
Well, some objects are a matter of taste that can't be faulted objectively, but off the top of my head there's the new gambling table texture: If you place a card deck on it, you'll see that the table texture's cards are about three times the deck's size, which makes them twice the size of AI's hands.
Harpalus on 11/9/2005 at 00:36
I'm going to agree with Targa here. Creating a fan mission is great, but you can't force others into doing things a certain way. You're sounding rather like the RIAA and movie companies, shall you next implement DRM into your missions to prevent people from customisation? Whether fan mission designers like it or not, players have a right to customise their game how they choose, and if they wish to play your fan mission with different graphics, then you have no right to get furious at them for it.
Lady Rowena on 11/9/2005 at 01:31
Harpalus
Sometimes I spend hours changing textures, objects and lights in one single room just to see if it looks good. (in my point of wiew, of course). Therefore I don't think that you have the "right" to change anything. If you don't like it, just don't play it.
I don't know anything about RIAA and DRM, but I would say: do you want to decide the plot of the movie? You'll have to make one by yourself.
Do you want a customized FM? Start building your own mission then!
