King Ronald on 28/7/2003 at 18:08

---

Let's face it - did anyone actually get majorly suprised when they found out that UNATCO was the bad lot in Deus Ex?

Nah. Didn't think so.

So - why was this? We're talking about a major plot arch of the original game, and not one of us was particulary amazed by it. That isn't good enough. We need to look at what went wrong, between the idea of player faction shift half-way through (which is a great idea, incidentally), and the implementation.

I think, my own humble opinion, is that the scriptwriters made it a little too obvious. They made the terrorists seem timid, and pleasant, saying lines like "Better this than starving on the streets" and making public opinion completely against what UNATCO was doing. I challenge anyone to cold-bloodedly shoot someone who is supposedly "the bad guy" moments after hearing that the only reason that they're doing this is that they want to eat. I mean come on! For crying out loud, I'm the guy who made "The Ronald Method(tm)", where you cause maximum carnage each level, with tonnes of bloodlust and automatic pistol fire - and I COULDN'T pull the trigger.

By the time you have your older, smarter brother telling you to join the NSF, with only the grouchy Manderly, psychotic Gunther and S&M vicious Navarre to tell you that UNATCO is the right team to be on, it's not exactly a major decision now, is it?

Not to mention the Simons "Interrogation" sequence...

By contrast, the whole "Who stole the Dragon Tooth Sword/Maggie Chow Mystery" was a comparative brain-teaser! I remember being GENUINELY PUZZLED AND UNCERTAIN, standing in her apartment, not sure WHO I could trust. THAT was a quality piece of gaming, just like later in the game with the "Evil Graveyard attendant", "Lucius DeBeers" and "Odd Mechanic" setpieces.

It was in things like that where I felt Deus Ex really got great. THOSE were the sections that went beyond even the amazing atmosphere, the gunfights, the returning to base, the debriefing, the secret underground labs, the "J.C Denton, drop your weapons and step into the hallway, you are under arrest!" god-damn hyper-kinetic cyberpunk genius.

So, team Invisible War, a request. I've heard that you'll be letting the player chose allegiance with several factions.......er..........ah yes:

Neo-Luddite monk people who hate technology (obviously the best choice)
Cyborg black market types who believe total mechanical-ness is required for enlightenment (i.e. kill em, but get their ace weapons first)
Holy Church group (boring boring Sophie's snoring)
Science faction (again, steal tech and return to the monks)

And I think that's all. You've probably got another eighty under wraps, but anyway-

The point is this: If you make one faction (like the Cyborgs) seem really evil and nasty from day one, then I, the player, shall not be suprised when they turn out to actually BE really evil and nasty. Neither shall I be that suprised if the group which is UBER-GOOD is really the baddy gang (see "Amelisan" from Baldur's Gate: Throne of Bhaal). What you want, to maintain realism as much as anything else, is to have each faction with more and less hardline types, with good and bad in them. That way it'll be a MUCH more complex moral maze to pick through, instead of "Hey! It's those guys who wear black Nazi suits in broad daylight - let's kick their asses!"

For instance - if the MJ12 had actually given you cash and missions before they started shooting you, I wonder how many people would have rebelled against them? Human greed and lust for power is an interesting one.

Let's make good use of it.

Krahl on 28/7/2003 at 23:54

---

What makes Deus Ex really interesting is that nothing in the story is either black or white. Each character, even those who seem evil, have their own reasons/philosophy for doing what they do and do not seem to feel genuinely evil. For example those who believe in and work for UNATCO usually do because they believe that terrorism should be fought with force, even if the end has to justify the means (i.e. killing civilians if there is a need). The elites like Bob Page and Simons think that the common man is too stupid to rule himself and that the world is overpopulated, hence the need to engineer a nano virus that kills those who are viewed as useless. To get a better insight into what makes MJ12 tick, you get to read a bit of their philosophy in the Templar cathedral. You learn that MJ12 is a collectivist organization that favors 'group think' rather than individualism, and that the individual should be sacrificed ("terminated") for the good of the whole.

This is the kind of stuff that DX2 should also have for it to compete with the original. I read that there will no longer be anything related to the conspiracy. I hope that Spector changed his mind because that means removing a major element in the storyline.

Aranolorion on 29/7/2003 at 20:15

---

deus ex took the classic narrative battle between appearanc and reality. to the very end, what you see and what is fact is a line blurred, by the ambiguity of Everrett, Helios and others. the game is shrouded in intrigue, and suceeds as a result, imho.

King Ronald on 30/7/2003 at 16:48

---

Aliens or no, all shall fall by the might of my long-distance silenced rifle and the joy of master "rifles" skill...........hehehehehehheheheh.

I only wish that there was the ability for J.C to play that 1920's ballad music that worked so effectively in "Mars Attacks!"....what a great aug that would be!

(I thought they were real at first -when I saw one being carved up underneath Versalife- but when you look at the breakdown of their anatomy on that science chart you see that by the serial number it clearly states that it's a man-made "gray-goo" organism made by Versalife/MJ12/the bad guys)

chris the cynic on 31/7/2003 at 06:50

---

I don't think the fact that UNATCO was bad was generic at all, it was part of the Deus Ex idea, UN run conspiracies are some of the most rich in the conspiracy theory lore so they almost had to put it in. It also works perfectly with the concept of MJ12. The reason you work for them to begin with is that you don't know about conspiracies to start with.

The idea was to have JC violently initiated into that world, so considering the type of person he was/is JC would have to be working for UNATCO or FEMA or the military, or any number of other things that are all tied together by the fact that in reality they are the bad guys.

If he wasn't working for the wrong people to begin with JC and the game would have had to have a different voice to maintain realism.

Sometimes you have to wonder if what you think is stereotypical and unoriginal is that way because the person making it up is non creative or if it is that way because that is the way it would really be. Watch the movie Seabiscuit , or Remember the Titans. If it weren't for the fact that they are true stories people would dismiss them as being generic stock plots, like you have dismissed the idea of starting out working for the bad guy. The truth of the matter is that the true story behind both of those is more outlandish and unoriginal than shown in the movies.

Sometimes you have to remember that reality is seldom realistic, and if something is realistic it probably isn't real.

I think that by haveing "generic" elements Deus Ex seems more real than it would otherwise.