Agent Monkeysee on 10/10/2006 at 21:04
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
I've said this many many times-- The best programming language for someone who's a complete newcomer to programming is an interactive interpreter.
Smalltalk
SMALLTALK SMALLTALKSeriously people it was designed originally to
teach people how to program.
Mortal Monkey on 10/10/2006 at 23:01
Smalltalk/X seems rather daunting for that purpose, although it might be a good introduction to working with IDEs. I'd recommend Python as a good alternative.
WingedKagouti on 11/10/2006 at 07:48
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
I've said this many many times-- The best programming language for someone who's a complete newcomer to programming is an interactive interpreter. One where you can just sit down and type PRINT "HELLO WORLD!" and it
does it, without having to link or compile or save a project or instantiate class libraries or any of that other modern crap. Save that stuff for later. The best feedback when learning is immediate feedback, and you just don't get that with compiled languages like you do with interpreted ones.
And if you still
need immedate feedback after a month then you should probably consider another venue. Ideally you shouldn't
need it for more than the first week.
It's nice to be able to get immedate feedback when you are just starting out and don't have any kind of experience. But getting used to immedate feedback is not going to help you in the long run. If you want to find work as a programmer these days then you have to learn the modern crap at some point, so you might as well start as soon as you're somewhat comfortable with the basic concept of commands.
Of course, in all of this remember that there are different ways of learning something, no method is the one correct way. And the same goes for teaching. You need to find someone who teaches in a way that is compatible with your way of learning. Unfortunately you will rarely know if there's a match without trying it out.
Vigil on 11/10/2006 at 10:00
Quote Posted by this thread
YOU GOTTA START LEARNING WITH ASSEMBLER/PROCEDURAL PROGRAMMING/FUNCTIONAL PROGRAMMING/OBJECT-ORIENTED DESIGN PATTERNS/WHATEVER NICHE LANGUAGE I CUT MY TEETH ON AND CAN'T LET GO OF OTHERWISE YOU
JUST WON'T GET ITAlong with them constantly bitching about the quality of their coworkers' code, this is the reason I avoid getting programmers started on talking about programming.
Would any other entry-level subject on the internet offer
this much conflicting, subjective and largely useless personal advice?
WingedKagouti on 11/10/2006 at 11:21
Quote Posted by Vigil
Would any other entry-level subject on the internet offer
this much conflicting, subjective and largely useless personal advice?
Well, politics tend to offer even more heated debates and useless subjective advice...
Mucca on 11/10/2006 at 12:03
Quote Posted by Agent Monkeysee
Smalltalk
SMALLTALK SMALLTALKWhat does Smalltalk offer that Ruby doesnt?
Quote Posted by Vigil
Along with them constantly bitching about the quality of their coworkers' code, this is the reason I avoid getting programmers started on talking about programming.
Would any other entry-level subject on the internet offer this much conflicting, subjective and largely useless personal advice?
So what's your solution? Don't respond? Dont seek advice?
ignatios on 11/10/2006 at 12:07
Quote Posted by Mucca
What does Smalltalk offer that Ruby doesnt?
The environment.
why am I still talking in this thread
Bomb Bloke on 11/10/2006 at 12:19
BASIC and its various varients are easy to learn, but don't teach you much more then the very, um, basics of programming. You have to unlearn a bit of it to pick up another language.
VB is the worst of that particular bunch IMHO. It's like QB crossed with Klick'n'Play.
ignatios on 11/10/2006 at 12:48
Hahaha, okay. You don't know what you're talking about, but okay.
Look people this isn't about waving your personally-preferred programming platform penises around; it's about good and bad advice. You can learn to program in any language; some are more approachable than others, but ultimately the important thing is to just get started. Renegen, pick what appeals to you and go through some tutorials.
Believe it or not, I too hate talking about programming (except at work) because it always degenerates into the same useless bullshit posturing, like politics and religion.
I'm outta here.
