If the new Thief's stealth is as much fun to play as Dishonored's stealth...

Thirith on 9/4/2013 at 12:18

... would you be okay with this? (I'm trying to keep the question neutral - personally I enjoyed Dishonored and playing it was the closest I got to the old Thief feeling in a long time, but I accept that in many ways it was reduced, too much so for some.)

Edit: I'm not talking about stealth that plays exactly as Dishonored's does, I'm more interested in how much 'original Thief stealth gameplay' you want and how many concessions you're willing to make. Would 90% Thief still be Thief? What about 70%? 50%? For me, Dishonored 'felt' a lot like Thief (much more so than Deus Ex's stealth, for instance), but I still missed especially the sound/shadows aspect.

jay pettitt on 9/4/2013 at 12:29

I quite enjoyed the stealth mechanics in Dishonoured - I think they threw some taffers who were expecting it to work the exact same way as Thief, but once the ropes were learnt it worked very well.

Obviously I think Eidos Montreal need to do a good job with the stealth - but it's only a foil to the atmosphere, exploration and story telling. Those are the things EM need to nail if they're going to do justice to Thief.

Myth on 9/4/2013 at 13:13

If NuThief played like Dishnored I'd be OK and just try to imagine it as some brand new game and not anything related to Thief. But the stealth mechanics in Dsihonored are counter intuitive to a long-time shadow lurker like me. Hiding behind conveniently placed pallets is not stealth for me.

Rooftop hopping is something I enjoy a lot, but in Dishonored we got uber blinkage to take away the challenge of vertical movement (which does make for very fluid and intense movement, which is FUN in its own right but the polar opposite of slowly creeping trough shadow and stalking for minutes at a time like in Thief) but then you get a smack in the head when invisible walls (tm) block your blink or mantle from 80% of the rooftops and terraces because you clearly can't break their carefully railroaded level design.

Also, the natural paint like, concept-artish textures break my immersion constantly.

All that being said, I enjoyed Dishonored and even started a violent playtrough on Monday night. I must say I suck at combat in Dsihonored, not having used it at all in the first game. But it seems like a new game entirely when you go all MDK on them.

henke on 9/4/2013 at 13:24

Quote Posted by Myth

Hiding behind conveniently placed pallets is not stealth for me.

But hiding in conveniently placed pools of shadow is? When you break it down both systems work the same way: You have "safe areas" which you can wait in, and observe guard routes from, but eventually you'll need to move into the open "unsafe areas" to get anything done. I agree that Thief's stealth should rely more on light/shadows than line of sight, but let's not pretend one is "proper stealth" and the other is not.

Myth on 9/4/2013 at 14:12

It's proper to me. I enjoy Thief's plunge in darkness, it just evokes feelings that can't be matched by daylight and hiding behind rusty barrels.

Renault on 9/4/2013 at 14:18

Thief is the grand daddy of stealth games - the stealth has got to be more complex than any game that just boasts stealth as an option, such as DXHR and Dishonored. There's got to be different types of surfaces to walk on, lights to be extinguished, a light gem, leaning, and stealthy tools. If the stealth is watered down and at the level of the games mentioned above, that's not acceptable to me. If they're going to do that, you might as well just play those games and not make this game at all.

Dont' get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of both DXHR and Dishonored, but they only present stealth as one alternative. I don't want that with Thief, I want stealth to be the only option. That's why the quote about "We want you to play as a thief, be we don't want to force you to play as a thief" has me somewhat concerned.

thiefessa on 9/4/2013 at 14:25

Quote Posted by Brethren

Dont' get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of both DXHR and Dishonored, but they only present stealth as one alternative. I don't want that with Thief, I want stealth to be the only option. That's why the quote about "We want you to play as a thief, be we don't want to force you to play as a thief" has me somewhat concerned.

You are concerned that you have a choice, do you mean? The earlier games allow you to choose stealth or combat.

Renault on 9/4/2013 at 14:34

I want combat to be a desperate option, not an equal option to stealth. You should never start a Thief level thinking - hmm, do I want to go the combat or stealth route for this mission?

Thirith on 9/4/2013 at 14:35

Quote Posted by thiefessa

You are concerned that you have a choice, do you mean? The earlier games allow you to choose stealth or combat.

It's a matter of balance, though, isn't it? If the game allows for the occasional slip-up resulting in combat that you can just about survive if you're lucky and good, that's one thing; if fighting is a feasible strategy for every single encounter, that's quite another thing. While I'm more (cautiously) optimistic about the new Thief, if they design for the latter (stealth and fighting being equally feasible) it will have a major impact on what the game is and how it plays.

DrK on 9/4/2013 at 14:42

Quote Posted by Brethren

I want combat to be a desperate option, not an equal option to stealth. You should never start a Thief level thinking - hmm, do I want to go the combat or stealth route for this mission?

Can't agree more with that.