Epos Nix on 10/4/2010 at 17:23
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Hardly. Belief, with no testable evidence is fundamentally irrational. One cannot accept logic and nonlogic at the same time. Lumping together everyone who's accepted irrationality - which faith by it's very nature is - isn't irrational, it's basic grouping.
Bah. You are too wrapped up in your own preconceived notions of what religion is to even bother debating with.
Faith is irrational to you only because you've already dismissed it as the product of delusional minds. You are also ignoring the fact that
something happened a couple thousand years ago that kick-started Christianity. It was not formed in a void by some guy penning a couple stories ya know... There was an event which many people witnessed that so convinced them that what they saw was real that they were willing to sacrifice their lives to make sure that their testimonies were transmitted verbally until such a time that they could be written down. I'm sure you'll have an excuse as to why that's all irrelevant so you can justify continuing to label believers in this event as irrational, but ignoring history does not mean it didn't happen.
I'm not defending this because I'm Christian. I'm not. I'm defending it because ignoring the entire possibility that what these people witnessed was indeed real is irresponsible to your own intelligence. I've known a good many very intelligent people who believe the Bible holds some semblance of truth to it. For a time, simple arrogance prevented me from considering these people as anything but crazy. It wasn't until I came to understand that not everything on this complex plant of ours is as straight forward as I'd like to believe that I came to understand why intelligent people would defend 'ancient' ideas.
Of all the knowledge there is to learn in this universe, mankind has acquired perhaps 1% or less. I have faith (however irrational it may be) that we will continue to improve our understanding of the things around us, but I also have the wisdom to realize that it will not be in my life time. Therefore, I could accept that maybe there is some truth contained in religions like Christianity and Buddhism or I can choose to wait till science explains it all so I can make a truly informed decision. Which is more rational? Either way I'm going to be dead by the end of it all, so does that really matter?
SD on 10/4/2010 at 18:05
Quote Posted by Epos Nix
ignoring the entire possibility that what these people witnessed was indeed real is irresponsible to your own intelligence
I hope you're reading this, Phatose. Yes, you with your irresponsible denial that people can walk on water and come back from the dead.
Namdrol on 10/4/2010 at 19:11
Quote Posted by Epos Nix
Therefore, I could accept that maybe there is some truth contained in religions like Christianity and Buddhism or I can choose to wait till science explains it all so I can make a truly informed decision.
I take great exception to anyone claiming Buddhism as religion and lumping it in with the fairy story that is taking Jesus Christ as the risen lord and personal redeemer (fucker died for his own sins not mine).
I once asked my Lama if Buddhism was a religion and he responded by asking if I would worship my driving instructor.
R Soul on 10/4/2010 at 20:36
If more people followed the teachings of their driving instructors, the roads would be safer.
;)
Fafhrd on 10/4/2010 at 20:43
Quote Posted by st.patrick
providing military defense to the conquested areas, it would have collapsed anyway, no matter what god(s) they'd worshipped.
Pre-conversion the military was made up of conscripts and volunteers from a wide variety of pagan belief systems, once non-Christian religions became unacceptable it became impossible to maintain a large enough military to effectively defend and govern the Empire at it's peak.
Which brings me to:
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the Eastern Roman Empire, centered on the new capital of Constantinople, outlasted the fallen West for a thousand years (during which it remained the wealthiest state in Europe)
The Byzantine empire was also half the size of the Roman Empire, and mostly around the Mediterranean, making re-deployment of a smaller military more effective as a tool of defense and governance. And Theodosius I's anti-pagan decrees were probably major contributors to the split between the Western and Eastern Empires, and ultimate collapse of the West. And the destruction of a huge chunk of Alexandria.
Epos Nix on 10/4/2010 at 20:48
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I take great exception to anyone claiming Buddhism as religion and lumping it in with the fairy story that is taking Jesus Christ as the risen lord and personal redeemer
Why is that? I'm truly curious.
Queue on 10/4/2010 at 21:33
Correct me if I'm wrong, Buddhism is a philosophy--the search for enlightenment. It's not central to the belief in a deity, instead being a belief in finding an inner truth. Thus, it's not a religion; which is central the notion of a deity for which one must worship to find ever-lasting life over of eternal damnation...fuck any inner truth.
Namdrol on 10/4/2010 at 21:39
Exactly, in a nutshell.
Hence the driving instructor analogy.
Queue on 10/4/2010 at 21:44
I knew I'd get something right one of these days. Now, off to mix that ammonia and bleach to make the ultimate cleaner! I'm certain I'm right about this one, too.
P.S. I think I may be a Buddhist. The irony is that my wife is (honestly) planning what she's calling a Viking Funeral... Whatever the fuck it is, there'll be booze, a large pyre, and flaming arrows, all culminating in some convoluted drinking game. I swear, the Christians just don't know how to die with any sort of class.
P.P.S. Though I shouldn't be, I'm enjoying me a little drinky poo. What more could if fucking hurt?
