I never liked Vodka anyways... - by Thief13x
The_Raven on 9/4/2008 at 13:06
Wow, Starrfall must be like Beetlejuice or something; just mention her and she's there.
Anyway, I'm pretty much done playing retard for now -at least I hope I was only playing. Illegal immigrants are guilty of breaking the law, and that it is pointless to compare the current situation to the European colonization of the west.
Just thought you should be informed.
Starrfall on 9/4/2008 at 14:38
Well I can't be disappointing my public, you know how it is.
Rogue Keeper on 9/4/2008 at 15:06
Quote Posted by Starrfall
I have never done anything illegal
Mother Mary... :wot:
Ghostly Apparition on 9/4/2008 at 15:54
Quote Posted by Starrfall
That's probably because you're not really as nice as most illegals are.
Good luck with Syria I guess!
How many illegals do you actually know?
I know quite a few, most extremely nice, doesn't mitigate the problems illegal immigration causes. Lets put it this way, if there were only a few hundred illegals in this country it wouldn't be a problem. there are over 12 million, and thats just a guess. If only 1 person robbed a store, no big deal right? but if 12 million people are out robbing stores its a serious problem. No, I'm not saying they are all out robbing stores, okay? just making a point. It really doesn't matter how nice the robber is, does it?
Having said that, I don't really think building a stupid wall is gonna solve the problem. As Mr Duck alluded too earlier. There needs to be some thought into improving conditions (Jobs) in Mexico, and other Latin American countries.
Along with more serious penalties for companies here that hire them.
Take away the incentive and the problem will just go away. Its a result of years of looking the other way while companies improve their bottom line by hiring illegals cheaper with no real penalty. Ignoring the result of depressing wages here in the U.S. that results from an influx of illegals willing to work cheaper. Not to mention the possible ill treatment of workers who fear being deported and have no recourse when workplace conditions are, shall we say, less than optimal.
Stitch on 9/4/2008 at 16:38
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
It is against Federal law to enter the U.S. illegally. is it not?
Of course it's a crime, but let's put it in perspective: they're breaking the law so that they can
work. Oh god how could they?!
The problem with illegal immigration is multipronged:
First off, illegal employment is the backbone of America. This is the reality of the current situation, like it or not. Suddenly ending all illegal employment as is would grind this country to a halt.
Secondly, we don't have an immigration system in place that can handle the need of reality. People should not be forced to circumvent a system to fill empty jobs.
Thirdly, illegal immigration results in a sub-class of American workers who aren't protected by the system, despite the fact that the majority of them pay in.
Fourth and final, America is increasingly hysterical and racist in how it handles and portrays this delicate subject.
For example:
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
Side note: on news today in Los angeles was a story about a young kid (17) good kid, athlete, good grades..Killed on the street by a illegal alien, who was just released from jail here for a previous crime.
Congrats on buying into the hysteria. Legal residents kill scholarly, athletic kids after being released from jail, too. Even on the street!
Edit: There is something to be said for the fact that this system illegal immigrants are forced to circumvent can include the justice system, but that's a larger, thornier topic.
Ghostly Apparition on 9/4/2008 at 22:07
I would hardly call myself hysterical, I was just pointing out one example of the legal system not doing its job. but apparently that was lost on you. Of course legal immigrants commit crimes too. Nor am I calling for the immediate deportation of all illegals, not that that would be possible. nor am I calling for a (hysterical) building of a wall or fence which would cost million(billions?) and do little to stem the tide.
What I am saying is that maybe the U.S. should do something to help the economies of the western hemisphere, at the same time imposing penalties on the employers who employ them illegally.
You also seem to imply that they are filling empty jobs, I haven't looked at the stats recently but I seem to remember something like 60,000 plus jobs lost. Laid off, let go,etc. If companies are laying off people it seems there aren't a lot of empty jobs out there. Next your going to say that they take jobs Americans don't want...maybe Americans won't take jobs picking lettuce, but there are a whole lot of illegals taking construction and manufacturing jobs. There aren't 12 million illegals picking lettuce.
If illegals weren't here driving down wages, I know plenty of Americans who would take construction and manufacturing jobs.
While I provided a possible solution, your rebuttal contains none that I see.
What is your solution? Just open the borders because (gasp!) all they want is to work?
I just love the fact that if you want to do anything about illegal immigration that automatically makes you a racist.
sergeantgiggles on 9/4/2008 at 22:16
Let's finish the job and annex Mexico.
Stitch on 9/4/2008 at 23:20
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
I would hardly call myself hysterical, I was just pointing out one example of the legal system not doing its job. but apparently that was lost on you.
That's not the point you made and that's not why you made it, whether you are aware of it or not.
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
You also seem to imply that they are filling empty jobs, I haven't looked at the stats recently but I seem to remember something like 60,000 plus jobs lost.
That (imaginary) stat is meaningless. The economy is a far more complicated beast.
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
While I provided a possible solution, your rebuttal contains none that I see.
Wrong on the first part, correct on the second.
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
I just love the fact that if you want to do anything about illegal immigration that automatically makes you a racist.
Who ever made that claim? Anyone paying attention is aware that illegal immigration is a problem that needs addressing.
Mr.Duck on 10/4/2008 at 00:00
Quote Posted by sergeantgiggles
Let's finish the job and annex Mexico.
I'm not changing my name to Louis.
I'm not fighting/supporting your government's bullshit wars.
But you're welcome to make your government erase our debt with it. That'd be a great start. :D
Illegal immigration...a sticky situation all over in any country having it. Can't go too far right on it, can't go too far left on it.
Ghostly Apparition on 10/4/2008 at 00:14
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
Oh, but I'm not. not at all. I realize the vast majority are just here for the jobs and to try to make a better life. Who can blame them? But the reason I noted that particular incident is that the murder could have been prevented had the police done their job. ..Ok, I know you're going to say its not the police's job,but the point is, what harm could it do if they just turned over illegals who commit crimes to the INS? I'm not even talking about conducting raids on illegal workers here, but simply deport those who HAVE commited a crime.
Quote Posted by Stitch
That's not the point you made and that's not why you made it, whether you are aware of it or not.
Wrong on the first part, correct on the second.
If you read my post later on you would have seen that that was the point I was trying to make. If you can't be bothered to read the whole thread,or at least my contribution, try not to correct me on what I know I wrote, MMkay?
On the wrong on the first part, I believe the steps I put forth could be part of a solution, Maybe not your ideal solution, but since you choose to simply disagree with me without putting forth any kind of possible solution of your own, doesn't mean I wasn't putting forth at least a partial solution.
Btw: if my imaginary stat is meaningless than so is your claim that all they are doing is filling empty jobs. neither of us can back up that claim so it seems.
Apparently reading comprehension isn't your forte. I am not all hysterical or wanting to immediately deport people and I DO realize that they come here for the jobs as my above quote indicates. But it is a problem and if all we do is ignore it nothing gets done. You yourself said illegal immigration is a problem that needs addressing.
Thats really all I'm saying. SO? any ideas about what to do about it? or do you just want to argue with me?
