I never liked Vodka anyways...

phide on 11/4/2008 at 22:49

Quote Posted by Stitch

For the record, you will always lose any debate due to your sheer inability to comprehend any view other than your narrow own

I can comprehend any view so long as it's logical. You don't ask me to understand your point of view, you just expect that I suspend my own beliefs and willingly submit to yours, right? I'd frankly rather not.

That's not a "debate".

Quote Posted by Starrfall

You compared crossing a border without permission with sex crimes and so you have no credibility.

I could have used an example of any other criminal in that particular analogy, sir. I chose sex offender (let's say those found guilty of lewd and lascivious acts with a minor). I never said illegal immigrants were as "bad" as sex offenders or that the severity of their crimes are as immoral/damaging/indecent/etc.

Let's not be ridiculous.

heretic on 11/4/2008 at 23:58

Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition

Edit: To Heretic, the illegal alien comment was a joke. I do know what the term means and in no way need to have it explained to me. But, thx anyway.

Figured as much, all apologies. My reply was not directed at you so much as any who actually have trouble with the term itself.

Stitch on 12/4/2008 at 00:02

Quote Posted by phide

I can comprehend any view so long as it's logical. You don't ask me to understand your point of view, you just expect that I suspend my own beliefs and willingly submit to yours, right?

I don't expect you to do anything other than continue filling that bib with drool.

Starrfall on 12/4/2008 at 00:21

Quote Posted by phide

When faced with the choice of "lame cop-out" or "admitting it was a stupid thing to say" you picked "lame cop-out" so you still have no credibility.

heretic on 12/4/2008 at 01:35

Quote Posted by Stitch

I've made a few brief points regarding this in the assumption that participants would be able to connect the dots, but I should have known better the moment admitted readers of Ann Coulter joined the fray.

There is nothing racist, of course, about wanting to enforce immigration and deport illegal immigrants. There is also nothing racist about addressing the darker areas of illegal immigration that the left has been known to ignore. There also is nothing inherently racist about wanting to secure the borders, although I still stand by my original claim, more on that in a bit.

The current level of vitriol powering the anti-illegal immigration side of the debate is ridiculously racist. There is an all-too-common boiling indignation that has turned "people illegally entering America to work" into "lawbreaking darkies invading our country to steal our jobs, use our resources, and leer at our women." Illegal immigrants are seen as a leeching scourge, criminally unaccountable.

This distorted fantasy is at best xenophobic and at worst racist. It distorts valid illegal immigration problems while ignoring the benefits these illegal immigrants provide. It takes legitimate concerns like border security and twists them into cartoonish, meaningless talking points spouted solely by--here we are--imbecilic racists.

A friend of mine who migrated from Mexico as a child has had similar experiences, like a month ago when a customer of the high-end athletic supply store he managed openly asked him if he was "an illegal."

It wasn't an isolated incident, and we're getting worse.

Ann Coulter is at least as funny as Bill Maher, and for the same reasons. Regardless, I highly doubt that anyone takes either of them seriously, especially around here.

I agree wholly to the second paragraph, but then I am perplexed by the third. Just who is saying or implying that bit about "lawbreaking darkies invading our country to steal our jobs, use our resources, and leer at our women" aside from yourself? The cry of racism has become an all-too-often used smoke screen, and is particularly dubious in this instance. Where are these bogeymen? FYI, Stormfront is not mainstream.

-and your example just didn't cut it. I'm white, but was still asked by my mortgage firm to prove my nationality and submit ID and a social security card when buying my house. This was before they ever saw my wife, who is one of the very "darkies" we are talking about. I have lived all over the US, from South Carolina to Texas, Oregon to California. I have yet to meet any of these hate-filled wackjobs that I should be surrounded by given my right of center positions on most political topics. If some random dumbass asked your friend about his status that's not exactly relative to society as a whole now is it?

As I've seen it, this vitriol you mention comes from the frustration of the reality of the fiscal situation smashing into the dubious myth about illegals "doing the jobs we won't do" among various others. The $1200.00US pricetag per average household that this costs is a lot of scratch when it isn't of mutual benefit to the people actually paying it.

Our resources are finite and there is a net drain. We've got plenty of poor Americans to worry about allready. This pool grows ever larger with every wave of illegals that drive down wages for the unskilled jobs that initially kept the lower classes from starving or depending only on welfare to begin with.

One well documented example is the tremendous effect illegal immigration has had on the black community.

This info and much more is available in the links I posted earlier. If you are not as narrow minded as you accuse others of being than why not see for yourself?

Mr.Duck on 12/4/2008 at 01:40

:cool:

*Preps his brothers and sisters for the guerrilla movement "El Taco Loco" to retake back the land*

:D

Can't we all just eat some tacos (no Taco Bell kind, plz) with salsa and get along?

:(

phide on 12/4/2008 at 01:42

Quote Posted by Starrfall

When faced with the choice of "lame cop-out" or "admitting it was a stupid thing to say" you picked "lame cop-out" so you still have no credibility.

Didn't I just suggest that we not be ridiculous?

Quote Posted by MrDuck

Can't we all just eat some tacos (no Taco Bell kind, plz) with salsa and get along?

You betcha. I'm buying!

Ghostly Apparition on 12/4/2008 at 01:44

Quote Posted by Stitch

I've read every word you've posted. I'd suggest you worry less about my reading comprehension and more about whether or not you're effectively communicating your point. I'm admittedly being an ass here, but why should I engage in a conversation increasingly driven by what isn't being said?

As for fixing the immigration problem, off the top of my head:
1. Don't worry about the borders. That isn't the problem.
2. Get illegal immigrants in the system, to both protect them and hold them accountable for their actions.
3. Establish a better work visa system to handle the need. Allow illegal immigrants the ability to "upgrade" to this visa through some kind of application and fee.
4. Give illegal immigrants a path to citizenship.
5. Once all this is in place, enforce the work visa laws by cracking the fuck down on employers that hire illegal immigrants. Implement some kind of weighted deportment system.
6. Stop calling them illegals.

It's a start. Feel free to make it better!

I wish to at this time rebut your off the top of your head solutions.
1. Don't worry about the borders? are you kidding me? Thats how 12 million got here in the first place, not counting those here on temporary visas that conveniently forgot to go home. Not to mention the fact that are unsecured borders are a security risk in the time of the so called war on terror.
2. Get illegals into the system. Oh where to start? How about the fact that getting the current illegals into the system is a slap in the face to those who are applying to come here legally. Hold them accountable how? By rewarding them for thier actions? or are you talking about some fine of some sort?
3. upgrade from being here illegally to a work visa system? are you kidding me?
4. reward illegal behavior with a carrot or candy or something.
next time someones robbing me I'll reward them with money if they're holding a gun otherwise rewarding illegal behavior is a bad idea.
5. This idea has some merit
6. I think we have discussed this already.

heretic on 12/4/2008 at 01:44

Quote Posted by MrDuck

:cool:

*Preps his brothers and sisters for the guerrilla movement "El Taco Loco" to retake back the land*

:D

Can't we all just eat some tacos (no Taco Bell kind, plz) with salsa and get along?

:(

Of course, you bring the tacos, I'll bring the cerveza. :thumb:

Stitch on 12/4/2008 at 02:35

Quote Posted by heretic

This info and much more is available in the links I posted earlier. If you are not as narrow minded as you accuse others of being than why not see for yourself?

Actually, you bring up some good points that I'd like to go into further when I have the time. For the most part I think you and I would agree more or less on what the dimensions of the problem are, even if we disagree on the best possible solution.