jbairdjr on 4/12/2004 at 02:28
Well played.
:devil:
kfgecko on 4/12/2004 at 03:12
Quote Posted by Rug Burn Junky
Oh yeah: What Monkeysee said.
Agreed. RBJ didn't do anything shameful.
Like it or not, you can't just hire anyone just because you want to. Welcome to the cold real world. The hiring managers are looking to hire a person according to certain criteria, and personal interaction is one of intangible but very real effects that a person brings to a workgroup. RBJ was ask a question and he answered honestly without (as it seems) a hidden agenda either for or against that guy.
I've been on both ends, having indirect influence on hiring (or not hiring), and also being rejected at a places I'm interviewing at. (In fact I was almost hired at one place where everyone liked me and wanted me on board... until a 1 week new manager who task was to "stream line costs" vetoed me on a ticky tack thing: wasn't an expert in one small task; I think to make his initial waves.)
RBJ, you were asked you opinion as an employee of that company (or trusted associate). Options were to tell the truth without agenda, give an answer in accordance with an agenda, or to hide your opinion so as not to have a negative impact on his hiring. I don't think you did anything wrong, man. In fact, your action is what most managers want in that situation.
Zaphod on 4/12/2004 at 03:21
Great story, Ruggums.
Funny old world - you never know who anyone is.
buglunch on 4/12/2004 at 09:29
"Guy just lost a job, because six years ago, he didn't say hi to me in an elevator. Funny how life works sometimes."
COME. ON.
Be honest: you stabbed his career in the heart for shaky reasons of social herd-mentality; fitting in, kow-towing to norms for mediocre people, assuming things with no proof and paranoia.
Because you could.
(There may even be a lot more to this than you're saying, like a simple facial mole or a groin drip... :cheeky: )
Gatekeeper Euphoria.
Stories are stories; lives are lived once. I hope this is fiction.
I've wound up running entire businesses because they implode so often and personnel/President/owner can't even figure people like me out and their minds gel. I show up and do it better than ever planned and fix things I've never seen and it's done early. Coffee time! but I'm busy checking the orchids I brought and hung outside instead.
BUT, if prospective employees come a-callin' and spot me, they run. If underlings try to take my lead position, they wind up at home in the shower asleep, by their own hands. I don't even DO anything to them.
Go figure, I just keep working.
Sometimes, I have to RBJ the odd doorknob, d'ailleurs...
Scots Taffer on 4/12/2004 at 13:55
Nice story, and I'm continually amazed by just how bloody small a world it is we live in. When you think about how many people one person can know (friends, family, friends of friends, friends of family, random people), it just goes on from there.
For example, at a ceilidh last night - I knew roughly 70% of the people there to say hello to (even if I don't remember their names) simply because I've known the same group of people who've extended their friendship groups and I've been around them. (I haven't exactly extended my groups recently because I've only just returned home and left friends in Oxford).
Tocky on 4/12/2004 at 16:15
"Strange isn't it? Each mans life touches so many other lives."
"You see George, you really had a wonderful life. Don't you see what a mistake it would be not to bend Donna Reed over the stair rail and wear her ass out?"
Or something like that.
Rug Burn Junky on 4/12/2004 at 16:26
Quote Posted by buglunch
COME. ON.
Be honest: you stabbed his career in the heart for shaky reasons of social herd-mentality; fitting in, kow-towing to norms for mediocre people, assuming things with no proof and paranoia.
Because you
could.
I know you're big on this "everyone's a special flower" bullshit, but an inability to adapt socially and effectively communicate <i>is</i> a failing in most situations.
A normal battery of interviews is 2-1/2 hours with five people, during which time the interviewee has their guard up and can possibly mask any social failings. I probably witnessed this guy for a total of 10-30 hours over the course of a year in his natural working environment, that's actually a better basis than what most of these decisions are made on, though admittedly, my direct interactions were few. During that time, he had opportunities to be social: he was rude. He had opportunities to be helpful: he was selfish. Not just to me, but to other people in the same environment. I never once saw him treat court staff as anything other than someone there to serve him. Never gave me <i>any</i> reason to think that these weren't endemic character traits. Why <i>should</i> I say anything other than I did?
I did have an agenda: a comfortable working environment. Not just for me, but for the staff as well (of whom I'm <i>very</i> protective, having known many of the secretaries/paras since I was one myself). Based on the way this guy treated both fellow clerks and court staff, I think I have every right to infer that he would not be pleasant to the staff working for him, and that I, and other attorneys, would not personally enjoy working with him either.
Not only that, this is a service industry. We need to make sure that the chain of communication is open at all levels, from clients to associates to staff to partners. Anyone who is unable to effectively communicate and inspire trust in others makes the job harder for the rest of us. It doesn't matter if they are more productive than everyone else (which, we have no reason to believe), if they make everyone else <i>less</i> productive they are a liability.
I have to walk into that office every day. I have a job to do. If he makes my job harder, I don't want him around. If he makes my working day less pleasant, I don't want him around. If someone asks me whether I want to work with him, I'm just going to be honest, and I was. Obviously, my bosses trust my judgement enough to ask me in the first place, and rely on it.
Tocky on 4/12/2004 at 16:56
Those were a lot of words to say don't throw shit up in the air becuse it comes down on your head. But yeah.
Randalor on 4/12/2004 at 17:10
To me it sounds like this guy was just a stuck-up arrogant prick. Honestly, I don't think it was a matter of you having the final say in weather or not he got the job, but by the sounds of it, to me at least, they had probably heard you used to work with the guy *and both of your job histories would probably show this as well* so you would probably have been called in and asked your opinion of him anyways. I feel you did the right thing.
nickie on 4/12/2004 at 20:21
Couldn't agree more on the importance of having people about you who you can work with and get on with, especially when there are only 5 or 6 of you. I've had 9 months of unmitigated hell from someone who has just left. I feel 10 years younger and I like getting up in the mornings again.
Interesting also to read this at the moment because I have a related issue that I don't know what to do with. Some advice/opinions would be welcome and my apologies if this is a hijack.
This person was working for us/with us till last week and left before he was pushed. Apart from being incompetent and costing us much money in rectifying his mistakes, on three occasions while driving on company business, he fell asleep at the wheel. On all three occasions the passenger realised what was happening and pulled the wheel in the right direction!
On one of these occasions he scraped the side of my car along the central crash barrier of the motorway. Company business I don't expect him to pay. The other two times there was no damage. On another occasion he was using my partner's car for personal use and crashed it into a hedge damaging the bumper. I expected him to at least offer to repair or replace. Well that's the background. Four driving mishaps (?) in 9 months.
My problem is that he has now got another job, as a driver. At least it isn't my problem but I feel concerned. If he has another one, chances are he may well damage someone.
I have to acknowledge that he was a complete dipstick who caused me serious grief and I loathed him so I have to be sure that I'm not just wanting to cause him grief in return. Or perhaps it would make me feel better if I did.
So, moral dilemma. Do I keep quiet or do I do something about this.
