Sinnowhere on 10/10/2022 at 06:12
If you don't know Ctrl Alt Ego yet, it's an intersting immersive sim about being a wandering ego (a.k.a. a parasite or a bug), able to leap between different equipments, electronics, robots on a space station. It got its influence from classics like System Shock, Thief, Dues Ex but managed to be totally different from them, with its puzzle/sandbox emphasis and dark humo(u)r/digital consciousness philosophy theme.
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https://store.steampowered.com/app/1571940/Ctrl_Alt_Ego/) Ctrl Alt Ego on Steam
Inline Image:
https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/1571940/capsule_616x353.jpgThe game currently has a 99% positive rating on Steam, check it out if you haven't! Have a look and add it to your wishlist! The interview down below was initially intended to publish on various Chinese gaming sites, but it would be a pity to not to post it in the English world. So I figured TTLG forum would be the best place to post it, hope you like this interview!
-Thanks again for making Ctrl Alt Ego! Can you tell us about you (or MindThunk identity) a little bit?MindThunk: My name's Francis, born and bred in jolly old England. MindThunk is me (solo dev), but it used to include former co-developer Chris. MindThunk was just a cool sounding name to create the illusion that there is a proper game studio here.
-What were the reasons that you and Chris decided to make CAE 7 years ago? And what eventually drove you to become a full-time solo dev?MindThunk: Chris and I are both veteran software developers, both always wanted to make games. When game engine tools matured sufficiently roundabout 2015 (Unity engine), it seemed irresistible to have a go finally.
Our ambitions were modest at first, but as we gained experience and saw the power the engine gave us... we couldn't resist getting carried away, and our 'small puzzle game' quickly morphed into something much bigger. After four years of working together part-time on it, we couldn't agree the future direction of the game, and I wanted anyway to go full-time on it to complete it... so we split. Three years later I had transformed the game into the kind of game I felt it had always wanted to become - a full-blown, open, sandboxy immersive sim.
-What were your original inspirations for CAE? I read it on Steam Forum that the starting points were Portal games and The Sentinel (1986), which I believe inspired DAD and serialization mechanics.MindThunk: The Sentinel was the starting point for the serialization mechanics - we've taken the basic idea and extended it. Another inspiration was the BBC Micro game "Imogen" - in which you transform between Wizard, Monkey, Cat - this was the seed of the idea that it would be cool to switch between different entities to exploit their ability set. The Portal inspiration is more about the vibe/feel than anything else - the 'silly on the surface, dark humour underneath' feel.
I also have a Mathematics & Philosophy degree in which I specialised in 'digital consciousness' - so the theme of the game is something I have long held a fascination for. There is a lot of depth to be discovered in the story of the game!
-How did immersive sims play a role in CAE's development? We can see some obvious similarities between CAE and System Shock at least, like the fps-rpg hybrid and organic level design, the space station and evil AI/robots setting, regeneration chambers (printers) and vending machines, and so on.MindThunk: This might seem counter-intuitive, but for the immersive-sim systems, the inspiration really comes more from Thief and Deus Ex then System Shock. I love all the classic immersive sims and have played many of them obsessively - but I feel all other immersive sims fall short of the goal in one way or another of really allowing you to 'play your way'. So this was something I wanted to put right in Ctrl Alt Ego - you really can play it how you like, and you're rewarded for it - and stealth, pacifism, aggression all have meaning within the context of the fiction, with optional achievements for taking on extra challenge.
This will sound like a bold statement but I truly believe Ctrl Alt Ego is the *purest* immersive sim out there!. It also has the most revolutionary 'fail forward' system of any of them. One day the industry will catch up with MindThunk. Ha ha. (Sinno: I don't know how this will translate! I am being 'cheeky' but also 'confident', not 'arrogant'!).
-What's your definition on Immersive Sims?MindThunk: I don't really have one, but I'll try.
An immersive sim happens when environment ("immersiveness") overlaps with systems ("simulation") to create complexity. The environment itself provides both structure (e.g. alternate routes) and props (e.g. crates) with which players can interact in different ways, according to the game logic (systems). The richer the systems and the richer the environments, the greater the complexity and the greater the freedom of choice and (probably) the better the immersive sim.
Within this framework, the player is tasked with goals, but not told how to achieve them. So then by choosing which systems to interact with and how, the player is encouraged to adopt a creative approach. The best immersive sims will encourage and reward different playstyles - the classic mix being stealth / pacifism / murderous bastard, allowing players to tailor the challenge level to their disposition.
I don't think an immersive sim necessarily has to be first-person perspective, but my personal preference is first-person.
-Developing an immersive sim puzzle game must be hard, what are the biggest challenges in CAE's development? Emergent gameplay requires systems interacting with each other, so was there a moment that a new system/feature, let's say, almost completely destroyed your previous work?MindThunk: Oh yes, this happened a lot. I think I am lucky to have the kind of brain that can 'manage complexity' - the ability to keep lots of variables in mind at the same time and imagine how all the other variables are impacted by a change to one or more of the other variables. But even then, I would inevitably miss things and only discover when playtesting that this small change I had made now meant my carefully made set-piece was now completely broken. However - sometimes it is in the discovery of these 'accidents' that new and interesting gameplay is discovered - so sometimes not being clever enough to think of all the ramifications can be a good thing! In a way it is the game 'designing itself' - that's what I love about immersive sims - you just need to develop the systems, have them overlap interesting ways, and the gameplay 'emerges' by itself. Just so long as your set-pieces hold up!
-Was it hard to design different mirrors, doors, cameras in CAE? The reflections work so well in CAE, not just flat reflections but also distorting reflections, since mirror reflections are pretty limited in AAA immersive sims.MindThunk: Former co-developer Chris designed most of the models, so for me it was very easy :). There were several iterations of DORs and cameras, I recall, because different robots are different heights and so the DOR windows need to work for all the different bots. But no, nothing sticks out as especially hard about it.
All I've done is 'throw things into the game' really. Doors, mirrors, crates etc - there isn't any clever grand design going on I'm afraid! Chris the DOR made a load of assets, I used them in the most creative way I could to make a fun game. I don't know why AAA games don't have mirrors - the only reason I can think of is because they can hamper performance.
-Wooden crates and most glass windows in CAE can not be broken or blown up, was it because of the potential difficulty in designs? Like the containers that lock BUGs inside, I remember there was a worm above a BUG container under bad BUGs' watch in chapter 7, I thought the worm was inside the container so I tried to blow it up but failed. Also there are breakable glass, after defeating "GOD" in chapter 8.MindThunk: There aren't any wooden crates in CAE - most stuff is either plastic or metal. But anyway, the reason things are the way they are is because they make sense in the CAE world. CAE has its own logic, its own rules. So no, it's not about difficulty of design - it's just that it wouldn't add any interest within the logic of CAE to be able to break plastic crates. You *can* explode them, by the way. And you can de-serialise them, print them, stack them, throw them around. So they are still interactable props, just in a different way.
Glass is a 'special layer' in CAE because you can HOP through it but not physically pass through it, which gives us plenty of 'puzzle' / map layout opportunities - so that's why glass is the way it is. If breakable glass were to be added, we'd have to distinguish it from the non-breakable kind - it's cleaner from a design perspective just to say glass isn't breakable in CAE. Chapter 8's the one exception, but it's still not really breakable glass - just if you defeat the GOD, I break the glass so you can enter the GOD.
MindThunk (One Day Later): I forgot the bug-crates are wooden lol. (Compared to other 'serious' developers,) I think it might even be refreshing to hear that a developer forgot that his bug crates are made of wood. I suppose the point in CAE is that it's not a real-life simulation, so it can get away with bending the rules. It has its own logic - things just need to make sense within that context.
-What are your favorite levels/missions and feature/design choices in classic immersive sims?MindThunk: I still think nothing has topped the original Deus Ex Liberty Island. I mean... what an opener! In the days I played it (at launch) there was much less opportunity to have games spoilered, so discovering the things you can do really felt like I had personally invented it. And then years later when the spoliery internet came along I learned of all the OTHER things I had missed and it blew my mind.
I loved the police station in DX Human Revolution. And more recently the Pallisade Property bank in DX Mankind Divided - incredibly huge and detailed environment. First City Bank & Trust in Thief 2 also blew me away - especially because of the hilariously creepy blind robots. There are too many to list (and I can't remember their names) but both Dishonored 1 & 2 are full of killer levels too.
My playstyle is 'iron man stealth' - as in I like to play really carefully trying not to be seen, but once I'm seen I'm not allowed to die. This forces me to play with both stealth and emergency combat/escape in mind, which is how I feel I would behave if I were really there - i.e. I like to become really heavily invested, fully immersed. So the best levels for me are the ones where on a first (blind) visit, you have a fair chance to sneak through it, but if you screw up, you also then have a fair chance to recover. The majority of Thief, Deus Ex and Dishonored levels do this, so I basically love them all.
I also replay immersive sims obsessively - which I think might be how I have come to understand what makes them work - when you're replaying a game for the umpteenth time you really start to understand some of the little detailed design decisions - things that on a first playthrough you most likely miss - e.g. things like how to hide sneaky routes in plain site, the timings of guard patrols, or why this collectable happens to be just here etc. And it also helps you identify things like 'this would be better if...' which then eventually feeds into your own game development.
-What do you think about the meme status of 0451 code? There are so many of them in a lot of upcoming indie immersive sims and even irrelevant giants like The Last of Us Part II and Call of Duty Modern Warfare. Gloomwood doesn't have it because Thief games didn't have it. Deathloop doesn't have it but made an achievement called "Old Habits Die Hard" when you input 0451. Have you considered including the code or not when you designed CAE?MindThunk: Sarcasm used to be the lowest form of wit until memes came along. I'm very nonplussed by memes!
There aren't any numpad locks in CAE, so no. But if there were, I wouldn't use it.
-Let's talk about the narrative. How did the story arc, humour and lore come to your mind? And what are your inspirations (novels/films, writers/directors, etc.)?MindThunk: I mentioned already my long-held interest in digital consciousness - so this was where the main theme came from. My background in software is obviously another huge influence - the game is packed with software engineering references. The story arc I *hope* is very original, it's told in a fragmented way, players who pay attention will get more from it than those who skip reading the various clues etc. I really like this because it means if you don't care about the story, then the story doesn't care about you, no harm done. But if you are interested... then there's some interesting philosophy and science that I hope will make players pause and think. I'm a fan of the work of David Lynch - I'd like to think if he made a video game, he would tell the story in much the way I've done.
I can't pinpoint any other direct inspirations - although I'm sure I am subconsciously influenced by various classic sci-fi novels and films.
-Where did you draw inspirations for CAE's interior art style and level themes? I saw you mentioned films like Solaris and Forbidden Planet before, as well as Japanese capsule hotel and Cathode-ray tube computers.MindThunk: This would be more a question for former co-developer Chris - he is a bigger sci-fi aficionado than I am - and so yes he has drawn on his encyclopaedic knowledge of classic and contemporary sci-fi when coming up with the art for CAE. I gather he likes Japanese capsule hotels too.
-How hard was it to market CAE and how is it going now?Being a solo dev developing a game in a niche studio-killing genre and marketing it alone without a publisher, sounds like an impossible task and no profit guaranteed.MindThunk: It has been very very hard. Possibly because of the primitive graphics / art-style, the game does not seem to have the instant appeal of other grittier / shooty looking immersive sims. I also had no marketing experience when I started trying to promote the game about 18 months ago - and I'm on my own with no budget for it.
I have been continually rejected from curated events (which are the best ways to get visibility) - again - I think the game probably doesn't have enough 'instant appeal' - which is frustrating because I am all about solid game mechanics, not how those mechanics look. However, 3D Realms accepted me to Realms Deep 2022 and that was amazing - lots of new wishlists and sales - big thanks to them!
My 'strategy' has been not to aim for a huge commercial hit, but instead to target the immersive-sim niche. The fact that it is seen as a studio-killing genre - I've actually been trying to lean into that to target those players that would otherwise have no immersive-sims to play! I only need to make a fraction of the sales that e.g. Prey 2017, Dishonored etc make to be commercially viable. My belief is that despite it being a gaming niche (and possibly Ctrl Alt Ego is a niche within that niche), the niche is large enough that the game *could* become commercially viable. Not every game has to be a hit, is my attitude, it just needs to find its audience. Progress is slow, but it seems to be heading in the right direction!
-Currently CAE has a 100% positive rating (now 99%) on Steam and more people start to play it, do you have any future plan for CAE to keep the momentum?MindThunk: There are no concrete plans, but up for consideration are: Localization (e.g. to Japanese, Chinese...), Console release (Switch? XBox?), Possible DLC exploring new gameplay possibilities, and I've also still got a bunch of Missions to produce (I'm still trying to assess if players are interested in the standalone Missions feature or not).
-CAE players have been incredible so far, with impressive speed runs, glitch/bug discoveries, unusual playstyles (like saving egos), would you share your thoughts and feelings on this?MindThunk: I'm loving it! It's what I always dreamed would happen. I especially love being surprised by a strategy that I hadn't even considered. Without wanting to spoiler something - one player recently sent me a save where they were sucking the go out from a certain enemy through two windows and across the vacuum of space. Really made my day.
-Some people think that VR might be a good fit for immersive sims in the future, and one of my friends say the way controls in CAE are designed would be quite compatible in VR. What is your opinion?MindThunk: Once the tech matures I can definitely see it working - the level of immersion will be unsurpassed. We initially wondered about CAE being a VR game (this was when we were seeing CAE as more of a simple puzzle game), which is why some of the elements are implemented in a VR-compatible way. One day it might be fun to explore porting a VR version.
-Would you mind telling us what games are you looking forward to play at the moment? What do you think of other indie immersive sims like Gloomwood and Peripeteia?MindThunk: There are several (many!) indie immersive sims coming and I'm excited for all of them... BUT... they all seem to be either at DEMO or Early Access stage of development, and I tend to only like playing finished games (which is why I released Ctrl Alt Ego in complete state). So I'll be watching them all, and hoping they get finished!
-Last question, tell us something about your cat and the other cat (you know what I mean), and thank you so much for this interview!!MindThunk: "My" cat is actually my neighbour's cat, but she seems to like being with me - she comes in my upstairs window and follows me around the house - so cute.
The other cat - I guess you mean the one of the achievements that is not "my" cat? - that cat used to be my wife's cat when she lived in Brazil - she gets very emotional about it... so I wanted to include it!
Thanks for reading!
