BlackCapedManX on 10/8/2003 at 12:02
Specifically the reasons for them removing the skills system.
I was reading through some of the preveiws (like the one that was posted on these boards recently) and have come to greatly dissagree with the way that they are portraying the skills system of DX1. In the above mentioned preveiw, they said that the skills system was formidable and imposing. When you first loaded the game, you didn't know what skills you should use where because you didn't know what kind of game it was. And this aparently made the skills bad.
Well the things with the skills was that you didn't need to know what kind of game DX was, you could form the game to the way you wanted your character to be, instead of having to base the character on one gameplay style. So wherever you put skills, you could find some use for them. And if it's your very first time through, then you could just not apply skills to anything right in the beginning, and add them in later as you get a feel for it. Plus it is plausible to actually play the game through without upgrading any skills (something I think I might want to try sometime), it's just a lot harder. And there was a whole training mission, which should have given you at least some idea as to what the game would be like.
So what I suppose I'm trying to say, is that just having augmentations (or biomods, as it seems they are regressing in technology, though the game should be taking place sometime around the time of the first SS, if I remember correctly I think it's 20 years in the future, so maybe they should have cybornectic implants now....) will reduce the amount of character customization in the game, and thus replay ability (as compared to DX1). Granted I don't know to what extent the Biomods will be costomizable to, but it still seems like they're cutting the customization freedom in half.
King Ronald on 10/8/2003 at 16:59
Well...........I like to bitch and complain as much as the next man, but I think you're being a little harsh on a game that hasn't even been finalised, let alone released.
I say we leave stuff like that till we've played at least half-way through the full game.
I agree with what you're saying about the skill-system though. I never found it tricky.
DidThatShadowMove? on 10/8/2003 at 18:31
Piss and Moan(tm)
Krahl on 10/8/2003 at 20:36
I can understand the need to simplify things to get a cleaner system, but not because the skills were "formidable" and "imposing". They really weren't. Not for anyone who has played RPGs anyway.
I just wonder how this will work for non-combat augmentations. Will it have biomods for more efficient lockpicking for example? If so, then the lack of skills won't be much of a loss -- as long as the biomods have a upgrade/level system comparable to skills. I know from reading posts of one of the DX2 designers that biomods for non-combat will be there, but he didn't precise what kind.
Picasso on 11/8/2003 at 01:15
There are passive biomods (that don't use energy and are on all the time, basically making them repackaged skills) which affect things like swimming ability and hacking.
I'm a Physics/Astronomy major, and I play games to get AWAY from math. Basing skills on numbers of points may not be imposing, per se, but it is an unnecessary evil.
We don't know specifics about them yet, but the developers have assured us that we'll be able to do al the cool stuff we could in DX1, and then some. Don't worry about it.
BlackCapedManX on 11/8/2003 at 05:46
I suppose I don't really have any right to complain about the system for IW, since it hasn't come out yet, but I still dislike how they are justifying removing the skills system. I personally found it a refreshing change from the likes of HL and Quake, but then again, at the time I hadn't played SS2. You kinda felt like you'd accomplished something when you can finally take out a MIB in one shot with the sniper rifle, because you'd finally maxed out rifles. And it allowed me to compare how well I'd do after having played the game over a few times ("well it appears that I managed to get a level 3 hack much earlier than paris this time" that sort of thing, which I get when I play the game over a few times). Since there where a set, low amount of Aug Upgrade cannisters in DX, it's not too hard to get all of them. Getting every last skill point was nearly impossible, since you could get skill points by going to the same place using a different route, and get 50 points for each route. It would be endless to get every last one. However it would be interesting if they did something similar for the biomods (instead of having one upgrade bringing the mod up one point, more points would get cumulatively more expensive). Whatever, just me Pissing and Moaning (tm). (who's got that trademarked by the way?)
Picasso on 11/8/2003 at 05:59
I don't see why people have problems with the Biomod system. You have the same freedoms and abilities as before (and more), without the downsides. No more bothering with math just to upgrade your character. No more random "point" values assigned out of nowhere ("exploration bonuses").
I think the biomod system will prove to be much more simplistic and elegant than DX's skill system.
BlackCapedManX on 12/8/2003 at 07:17
Meh, I love mathematic puzzles, so the skills system actually seemed rather simplistic to me (get points, choose skills, if you want a certain skill at a certain level, wait untill you have enough points, get skill). The most difficult thing would be chosing where the points went, and that was a problem carried over to augs, and I would assume would also be inherent in the biomod system. Honestly, how complicated were the skills?
Thiefs_Pawn on 12/8/2003 at 09:06
It's not necessarily that the skills system was complicated, it wasn't. But there seem to be two things that they want to improve on.
1 - What is better for player imersion in the world:
Having to pay an arbitrary number of arbitrarily awarded points to improve a skill or
Having some kind of aug enhancement applied by a medical robot?
I would say that the latter is far more in keeping with the game world.
2 - The other thing they want to address is that the skills screen was the very first thing a new player saw. What would happen if someone had choosen to max out say their environmental skill, there is absolutely no way that the first time you play, you could know that you were pretty much wasting all your points and that without a decent level in at least one weapon you were going to make life incredibly difficult. I have read that you won't get to choose any upgrades at all in DX2 until you have played through the first level, this seems like a good idea as by then you'll have at least an idea of how the game world works.
Picasso on 12/8/2003 at 21:16
Quote:
Honestly, how complicated were the skills?
Not much. But there's always room for improvement.
Quote:
I have read that you won't get to choose any upgrades at all in DX2 until you have played through the first level, this seems like a good idea as by then you'll have at least an idea of how the game world works.
This is true, but it should be noted that the first level is a friendly area, like UNATCO HQ (as it was early in DX) or a training level. You'll have biomods before you start on any REAL missions.
