fett on 8/12/2009 at 02:25
I would like to once again publicly apologize for having ever been part of this sub-culture. I know no one thinks it necessary but it's cathartic for me.
I'm sorry. :(
CCCToad on 8/12/2009 at 03:19
What the site doesn't get is that there's a difference between saying "happy holidays" because the company is pressured to be PC and being anti-values.
Oddly enough, though, some of the shops seem to be as offensive as they're trying not to be. For example, GAP's talking about the "winter solstice", correctly identified as a pagan celebration.
That said, keep in mind that this site is an aggregate of user-submitted reviews, and judging by most of them they seem to immediately deem a company offensive if the cashier doesn't say the word "Christmas".
I think that it would do them much better to focus their energies on companies that are actively engaged in supporting values they find offensive. For example, I think its a bit odd to talk about what a great company Target is because they said "merry christmas" at the register while ignoring the fact that company policy explicitly states they support gay advocacy groups.
A little consistency never hurt anyone. I also do think that this is a bit of a straw dog, because its not unusual for people with a strong ideological inclination to seek out companies that support that ideology(often in token ways). For example,a quick google search turned up numerous lists of which companies are the most and least offensive to gays.
I also don't see mockery of people who choose to give their business to Muslim-friendly companies, which is a growing trend. (
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1898247,00.html)
Muzman on 8/12/2009 at 03:28
Quote Posted by CCCToad
anti-values
It' s something of a tangent, but is that really common parlance?
It reminds me of weird film ratings like "Mild themes".
CCCToad on 8/12/2009 at 03:31
Doesn't seem to be that common in general, but it also seems to be pretty common in people who have a strong ideological bent on a topic, whether it be animal rights, christianity, islam, atheism, or whatever. I've known people who have refused to buy things based on their being opposed to Christian values, and people who refused to buy stuff from a Company they felt was biased in favor of Christians.
Starr does make a good point with that link: whether atheist or "fundie", these boycott efforts are usually organized efforts. It just looks like they got the wrong target this time.
Personally, I'm more offended by how commercially crass the Holiday season has become and how it only gets worse than by whether a retailer says "holidays" or "christmas". Its just more mindless PC. I'd prefer it if we did like Germany traditionally does and celebrate the actual Christmas season instead of just ripping everything down the moment there's no more cash to be made.
PeeperStorm on 8/12/2009 at 03:56
Just so we're clear on this: (Not specifically catering to a particular religious persuasion) = (Against that religious persuasion).
You're for us or you're against us!
CCCToad on 8/12/2009 at 04:05
Sounds about right.
Even though I'm pretty religious myself, I think that people of all religions(or lack thereof) need to learn that being religion neutral != discrimination.
Jackablade on 8/12/2009 at 04:12
Quote Posted by CCCToad
Starr does make a good point with
his link
This is the worst way to find out. :(
Just don't let GBM see this. They're probably in the bedroom right now.
rachel on 8/12/2009 at 04:29
Quote Posted by their "about" page
The Savior of mankind was born in a manger. Do you know the story? Have you
experienced this truth?
I keep picturing them going Samuel L. Jackson-style on a poor retailer: "Christmas motherfucker, do you SPEAK IT?"
Phatose on 8/12/2009 at 05:01
Well, they're extremist psychos, and yes, being aggravated about over-inclusiveness while neglecting the reality that your religious holiday has much more to do with commerce then actual religion is a case of very badly fucked up priorities.
But all that aside, maybe they do have at least some point?
Chanukah, despite the publicity it gets anymore, is really a fairly minor Jewish holiday, and it seems self evident it's been one built up directly because of it's proximity to Christmas. Going on about a very minor holiday in a different religion, in some sort of spirit of inclusiveness during a major holiday for another religion is kind of disrespectful. Claiming inclusiveness as the goal when the reality is that's it's been built up for commercial purpose is a double slap.
Kwanzaa isn't religious, and given that it was invented in the 60's, ain't even traditional. Putting it on a par with the major holiday of a 2000 year old religion...it's kind of like saying "Happy Birthday Bob! I got you a present. And Katie, it's not your birthday, but I didn't want you to feel left out, so happy Tuesday, I got you a gift too." The two things being given an apparent equality aren't equal at all....and again, commercialism at it's core.
And solstice? Are you fucking kidding me? That's an astronomical event. It's like 'happy full moon' or 'have a wonderful sunset.' Sure, maybe the ancient pagans used it as a reason to have a party, but as far as I can tell, the ancient pagans were pretty much always looking for an excuse to have a party.
Trying to imply an equality in these things with the central holiday of the world's largest religion kind of is insulting. The gap in actual importance to the appropriate religion is huge.
It would be like going up to your wife and saying "Happy Anniversary honey, and also happy premiere of Survivor: Antigua". They ain't equal, and implying that they are is bullshit. And certainly ain't gonna get you laid.
Now, there's certainly a case to be made here that Christianity has allowed Christmas to become so commercialized that it's religious importance is secondary, so it really does belong on equal footing with Kwanza, fuck you very much and next time keep the festival of your Messiah out of JC Penny if you want us to take it seriously. But somehow, I doubt the hyper religious are going to agree to that one.
SD on 8/12/2009 at 05:26
Quote Posted by Phatose
Well, they're extremist psychos, and yes, being aggravated about over-inclusiveness while neglecting the reality that your religious holiday has much more to do with commerce then actual religion is a case of very badly fucked up priorities.
But all that aside, maybe they do have at least some point?
Jigga please. Religion
is commerce. It's the most successful profit game in the business. Loyal customers for a lifetime and no obligation to deliver the goods until the end of existence? I'm only surprised Walmart hasn't tried to get a piece of that action.
Christmas is a case in point; everything about the whole damn thing is artificial, from the baby in a manger "humble beginnings" bullshit right down to the date December 25th itself.
Christians aren't pissed off that Christmas has been commercialised - they're just pissed off that their brand is getting pushed out of the picture.
This whole "Keep Christmas Special" movement is just arrogant posturing from a bunch of petulant religious thugs.
