Hypothesis: No Hamas = No More Problems. For anyone.

Wille on 31/5/2010 at 19:52

Best video so far of what happened at the initial stage of this sad event:

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo)

Notice the paintball guns used by the first wave of Isreali commandos. So far there has been reports that most casualties were due to blood loss after getting shot to foot. First wave of commandos had pistols as back up weapons and I guess these were used after the activists managed to capture a firearm from one of the commandos. I can hardly believe that all perished people were executed in cold blood as many media sites and papers tell.

Epos Nix on 31/5/2010 at 19:58

Quote:

End this nonsense, disband Hamas.

Because we've seen how easy it is to "disband" groups like this. Do the names Taliban and Al Qaeda ring any bells? :p

SubJeff on 31/5/2010 at 20:05

Brain, I asked exactly the same thing. I wonder if the lefty media here will show that video on TV much.

Epos you really are a clueless dong aren't you? PM me if you want educating.

Epos Nix on 31/5/2010 at 20:23

Please, educate me here. I really want everyone to hear your master plan on how we go about disbanding yet another radical terrorist/political organization. One that Palestinians have voted in to majority power in parliament even! (granted, "voting" in such a region is subject to interpretation.)

Muzman on 31/5/2010 at 20:24

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

Brain, I asked exactly the same thing. I wonder if the lefty media here will show that video on TV much.

Aren't they showing the other ones from on the boat? They don't show quite as much coherent detail but I definitely got the impression the soldiers were jumped as they boarded. In the other footage it looked like some of the troops came down with slung mp5 looking things (the teeny navy ones. Although, now I think about it, would the IDF use MP5s? anyway...). If anyone got hold of one of those, big trouble.

The whole situation is whacky. The boats are being provocative in what they're doing. But apparently half the people on board didn't go to protest school. When you make your peaceful stand all you do is wait for the authoritarian types to act like dicks and make themselves look bad, then you get on the news and point out that you were just trying to bring helpful supplies across an illegal blockade and arseholes came and teargassed you. But instead some dudes apparently flipped out.

SD on 31/5/2010 at 20:35

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

Brain, I asked exactly the same thing. I wonder if the lefty media here will show that video on TV much.

The video is moot. The vessel was (a) in international waters and (b) flying the Turkish flag. This means the ship is Turkish territory and the soldiers had no business boarding that vessel. Attacking that vessel constitutes an act of war.

SubJeff on 31/5/2010 at 20:36

The one on the boat is a couple of seconds and it looks like the commandos don't get it so bad. The heat camera one shows a couple of them taking a sustained and vicious pounding with metal bars/clubs. I know that at least 1 IDF commando has undergone emergency surgery today and at least 1 other has been admitted to a surgical unit and I'd guess it was the two that were first onto the boat.

One thing to note; the next time some flotilla mofos come in trying to push past the blockade the IDF will fuck them up bigstyle or at the very least board the ships with a "if it looks dodgy at all, whack it" attitude.

Brian The Dog on 31/5/2010 at 20:39

Israeli spokesman says they went in with paintball guns, to minimise loss of life.

SE, don't know if the BBC is showing the footage on the main news, but two video clips are on the website - one Willie has mentioned, and (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/10195997.stm) the other showing camera footage from on-board the boat.

I know I shouldn't be surprised, but Israel and Turkey both used pretty nasty language over each other. Israel called it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10196628.stm) "the armada of hate and violence", and Turkey called Israel "terrorists" over it. Both are completely over the top :(

SD on 31/5/2010 at 20:42

Quote Posted by Brian The Dog

I know I shouldn't be surprised, but Israel and Turkey both used pretty nasty language over each other. Israel called it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10196628.stm) "the armada of hate and violence", and Turkey called Israel "terrorists" over it. Both are completely over the top :(

The Israelis just committed an illegal act of war against Turkey, I'd say Turkey's verbals were entirely warranted in the circumstances.

Epos Nix on 31/5/2010 at 20:46

Okay, this is the asinine statement Mr Effect sent me via PM in order to further educate me:

Quote:

Sheesh, I've been on this site for you with years and you're still a twit.

The Tabliban and Al Queda cannot be disbanded because they are disseminated terror organisations.

Hamas runs Gaza - it's the political party in power there. Standing down/dissolving is easy for a political party to do - you just call it quits and say "we've ceased functioning as a coherent group, someone else take over".

So according to this, SubjEff does not believe Hamas is a terrorist organization. Here's a quote from the first freakin paragraph on the Hamas page on Wikipedia:

Quote:

The governments of the European Union,[8][9][10] Israel,[11] Japan,[12] Canada,[13] and the United States[14] classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. The United Kingdom[15] and Australia[16] classify only Hamas' military wing as a terrorist organization.

Yes, they are a political machine now, but this next paragraph describes their bloody past:

Quote:

Hamas was created in 1987 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi and Mohammad Taha of the Palestinian wing of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood at the beginning of the First Intifada, an uprising against Israeli rule in the Palestinian Territories. Hamas launched numerous suicide bombings against Israelis, the first in April 1993.[17] Hamas ceased the attacks in 2005, and renounced them in April 2006.[18] Hamas has also been responsible for attacking Israelis through rocket attacks since 2001, improvised explosive device attacks, and shootings, though it reduced those attacks in 2005 and 2006.[19]

Secondly, he believes the "Tabliban" were merely a disseminated terror organization. However, the very first sentence on Wikipedia counters this claim: "a Sunni Islamist political movement that governed Afghanistan from 1996 until it was overthrown in late 2001." Essentially, the Taliban is an organization very much like Hamas.

I would've kept this to PM but I don't enjoy being called a twit, dong, etc., and the way you've responded to the very legit issues people like Flower have brought up in this thread. Next time try it without the persistent asshattery. :D