Hypothesis: No Hamas = No More Problems. For anyone. - by SubJeff
Gryzemuis on 31/5/2010 at 14:39
Quote Posted by hopper
In fact, "what happened before yesterday" is one of the strongest motivations for the Palestinians
not to declare statehood (yet): They want the right to return to the places within present-day Israel that they were forced to leave, at gunpoint, by the Israeli army.
Sure, you are right there.
When I said "I don't care about the past", I meant to compare it to what kids usually do. "You kicked me." "But you took my ball". "But you called me names". "But you stepped on my toe". "That was an accident" "No it wasn't". "Yes it was". "No it wasn't".
The first goal should be to find a solution where everybody is equal and has the same rights today. Where there are no blocking of food and medicine. Where people aren't restricted to go to school, start a business, travel around, etc.
Then the 2nd goal could be to undo wrongs from the past. Like what happened during the beginning of the state of Israel. Material things. But tbh, I don't think you'll ever find a complete solution for that. Finding peace is also a matter of giving and taking
Look at South-Africa. There was injustice there because of race. Black vs white. This also caused big injustice in the material aspect. Since 20 years, the laws are unbiased towards race. But the big difference between rich and poor still exists. The majority of the same people who had a bad time because they were black before 1990, still have a bad time, but now because they are poor. There is certainly a correlation there. Many people in the 80s said that Apartheid could not be abandoned because the next day all white people would be murdered out of revenge. They were wrong. One of the reasons the change in SA worked rather smoothly is because the black people accepted their new rights and status. And didn't want to get compensated for all the material injustice that had been done to them. That was very forgiving of them.
But you can't solve all problems at once. I think it's a good start to give people equal rights and opportunities first. And we are currently far from that.
Gryzemuis on 31/5/2010 at 14:45
Quote Posted by AR Master
here's a p. good solution i think would be best
Is that the geography they teach kids in US schools ?
If you look at that picture, you'll see that Israel and Palestine are still ok.
It's Iraq and Iran and Saudie-Arabia and a few other countries that were blown off the map.
CCCToad on 31/5/2010 at 15:01
Quote Posted by LittleFlower
Is that the geography they teach kids in US schools ?
If you look at that picture, you'll see that Israel and Palestine are still ok.
It's Iraq and Iran and Saudie-Arabia and a few other countries that were blown off the map.
Eh, its still funny.
Besides, Israel and Palestine would most likely have been buried by the soil that the bomb displaced. The dirt to make that crater has to go somewhere.
AR Master on 31/5/2010 at 15:08
Quote Posted by LittleFlower
Is that the geography they teach kids in US schools ?
If you look at that picture, you'll see that Israel and Palestine are still ok.
It's Iraq and Iran and Saudie-Arabia and a few other countries that were blown off the map.
how the fuck would i know what they teach in us schools you aspergian sass talking queer? probably shit about how mountains make you "feel" nowadays if the trends are still holding. sorry your flaccid attempt at a burn made you look like an autistic, maybe giving up the internet will help
AR Master on 31/5/2010 at 15:09
naw but frills we cool
Morte on 31/5/2010 at 15:22
I rather think the first step to peace would be a settlement freeze. It's kind of hard to talk peace when you have people constantly grabbing more and more land, and noone with the political will to put an end to it.
Bluegrime on 31/5/2010 at 16:53
I agree with Little Flower. Kinda.
The situation, as it exists right now in Israel / Palestine, is terrible. And it is based entirely on Isreali aggression at this point. It is very easy from the comfort of your office chair to say that Hamas are idiots for fighting the Israelis like they do, but I have a simple question..
If someone invaded YOUR country and took YOUR home and took YOUR land and killed YOUR friends.. At what point would you be willing to just accept that? If this happened today the world would be in a furor! What if Poland decided to invade Germany and escorted the locals to "resettlement areas" at gunpoint? Would it be okay if they did that to reclaim a tract of land that belonged to them a thousand years ago? Would people be saying "Oh this poor Poles, having to kill those silly Germans with cruise missiles"?
It is tough to appreciate the actual brutality of the war that is going on down there. Has anyone ever here even been shot for protesting their country being invaded? Has anyone here ever had their infrastructure crushed by a little nation with big friends? How many wives, husbands, children and relatives have any of you lost because they simply happened to be born in a country that legally should be yours?
SubJeff on 31/5/2010 at 17:04
Both of your paragraphs have so many errors I can't be bothered.
Brian The Dog on 31/5/2010 at 19:30
I'm a bit wary of posting in a thread with as much flame-throwing potential in it as this one, since I don't know much about the situation in general or this one in particular. But I have some questions that I don't understand about this latest shooting at the ships, maybe someone could elucidate for me?
- If the ships were delivering aid, why try to go through a military blockade when they could go by land? Surely they would know the Israelis wouldn't like them going through.
- Why did Israel do this in international waters instead of escorting them into waters off the Gaza strip and then boarding them? Surely they're going to get more blame if anything bad happens in international waters.
- If they were peaceful, like the other 5 boats, then why are several Israeli soldiers badly injured, and they claim to be shot at, stabbed etc?
I've got to admit, I was bemused when the diplomats at the UN talked about "International Law". One of the things that came out of the Iraq enquiry (still ongoing here in the UK) was that the term "International Law" is a bit woolly to say the least. I'll let RBJ educate me on this though. I also had a good chuckle at the irony when the head of Hamas called this a major terrorist attack.
