Hypothesis: No Hamas = No More Problems. For anyone. - by SubJeff
Malleus on 5/6/2010 at 23:06
Quote Posted by *Zaccheus*
Seriously, why should anyone believe a word he says?
Why not? He doesn't say anything unbelievable. It's pretty much what you see on the IDF youtube videos.
Quote Posted by Matthew
Edit: whoa, holy post deletion Batman!
Was that me? :)
Tocky on 6/6/2010 at 06:41
Quote Posted by *Zaccheus*
I'd just like to say that I do not support Hamas' militant attitude towards Israel, just in case anyone was wondering. Both sides will eventuall need to learn to live as neighbours. I think most people on both sides really just want the killing to stop.
Everybody but Hamas and Iran and all fundie Islam. Everybody wants Israel to stop settlements too except Israel.
Quote:
It shows the attackers being beaten with
something at
some point and
someone being thrown overboard.
I suppose an activist could have dressed as a commando and the others tossed him over.
Quote:
You know, if those had really been Hamas activists, many of those soldiers would sadly be dead. It's a good job that they did not encounter any armed terrorists.
True. Pipes and knives make poor weapons against automatic weapons. I wonder if early firing of pepper filled paintballs angered them so or some idiot commando fired a real weapon to get them so angered or if they were just so angered over being boarded that they went stupid.
Quote:
Perhaps. It will also be easier for Israel to defend pre-emptive heavy handedness if they ever want to.
No. Most nations will cut them less slack now and they don't seem to give a shit anyway.
Quote Posted by demagogue
That reminds me that everything going on in Gaza has to take into account those Jan 2009 operations into Gaza (to stop the rocket showerings) where even by US standards, lol, Israel went way overboard shelling everything in sight (but not re-occupying it) and got heavily demonized then, as if to dramatize the extent of Israeli frustration with Gaza.
Hamas will find a way to spit at them. With the wall and chokepoints stopping suicide bombings and not being able to resupply thier rocket source it will be difficult but I have faith in thier hatred. Just as I have faith in Israel continuing settlement like assholes. The US should stop all aid with the next settlement they announce. They would drop a duece.
Muzman on 6/6/2010 at 08:06
The problem now is the boat and incident should be treated like a crime scene, not some military tribunal RoE bs. But I'm sure wrangling over the country of registration being Turkey, international waters and time are screwing any chance of that as we speak. (how do you shoot someone four times in the head at point blank range exactly? Not even zombies need that. I'm sure these guys were under some significant duress but the days when they would send the SAS in to clear prison riots armed only with sticks seems a long time ago)
*Zaccheus* on 6/6/2010 at 13:06
Quote Posted by Tocky
I suppose an activist could have dressed as a commando and the others tossed him over.
:p
Perhaps you've seen a higher resolution vid than me, but I could not tell who was throwing whom.
Quote Posted by Tocky
True. Pipes and knives make poor weapons against automatic weapons. I wonder if early firing of pepper filled paintballs angered them so or some idiot commando fired a real weapon to get them so angered or if they were just so angered over being boarded that they went stupid.
I'm very surprised that we have not had a chronological account from the activists explaining what happened in which order. I'll do some more digging.
Quote Posted by Tocky
they don't seem to give a shit anyway.
That is very true, certainly as long as NATO support them.
SubJeff on 6/6/2010 at 13:53
I suggest you read the Times. There are accounts from activists about the violent activists. But then they're probably Israeli spies.
Kaleid on 6/6/2010 at 14:09
Can anyone imagine what shitstorm this would have been if say the Iranians did the same to some Americans?
It would be used to justify sanctions, possible bombings, a coup or even a complete occupation.
Defending Israel: A How-To Guide
(
http://www.lobelog.com/defending-israel-a-how-to-guide/)
Schechter on 6/6/2010 at 14:55
Quote Posted by Tocky
The US should stop all aid with the next settlement they announce. They would drop a duece.
The U.S. does give hundreds of millions in aid to Israel, but the thing that the journalists and such never mention is that the money comes with a caveat that it is spent on military equipment from U.S. contractors, and for that exchange, the U.S. has full rights to any intelligence that the Israelis develop on the equipment's use. So, if Israel bought, say, an F-35 (hypothetically), and developed new flying techniques based on it, and even made a few improvements to it, they would have to cough up that knowledge on demand to the Pentagon. We also get Israelis regularly here due to the military base at Gowen Field, to train U.S. military on their own technologies. So out of the arrangement, the U.S. gets to spend even more money on defense contractors, gets someone else to work out the kinks and show them how its done, the contractors themselves get more money, and Israel has its defense budget largely (if not completely) underwritten. So when someone talks about U.S. aid to Israel, its not like there's U.S. government dollars being injected into the civilian economy, nor is it just a blank check. Money can, and does, come from foundations and such, but that's another animal. At any rate, *that's* why U.S. aid to Israel will not stop, no matter who says what: that aid is reinjected right back into the U.S. economy, and is part of how this whole defense business runs.
Tocky on 6/6/2010 at 16:51
Quote:
Muzman
(how do you shoot someone four times in the head at point blank range exactly? Not even zombies need that. I'm sure these guys were under some significant duress but the days when they would send the SAS in to clear prison riots armed only with sticks seems a long time ago)
Automatic weapons set on burst will do that with one pull of the trigger.
Not much of a shitstorm over 47 South Koreans killed by North Korea when it sank thier ship in international waters.
As for the link, yes, read it. Half the defense of Israel it lampoons is actually very real. Read the comments under it for exactly how biased it's readers are. The only way anyone is going to settle anything there is to view things as they are. Not that anyone is going to settle anything. The people of Palestine choose hate and war by electing Hamas and Israel the same with it's elections.
And Zach, the mans flack jacket came off when his dark blue helmeted figure went over the side.
*Zaccheus* on 6/6/2010 at 17:43
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I suggest you read the Times. There are accounts from activists about the violent activists. But then they're probably Israeli spies.
Quote Posted by Tocky
And Zach, the mans flack jacket came off when his dark blue helmeted figure went over the side.
I missed both those, will try to find them, but if you have a link handy I'd appreciate it.
Muzman on 6/6/2010 at 19:02
Quote Posted by Tocky
Automatic weapons set on burst will do that with one pull of the trigger.
Good point. Do we know if the IMF guys had any machine pistols of that sort? (I could look myself I guess. And now Schecter turns up. And people think I take long vacations)
