Hypothesis: No Hamas = No More Problems. For anyone. - by SubJeff
Kaleid on 31/5/2010 at 11:17
From the gaza blame game url above:
The israeli style:
"Be trigger happy. A recent statistical analysis by three academics (one at MIT, one at Harvard and one from Tel Aviv University) found that an overwhelming majority of lulls in violence since 2000 (when the second intifada began) ended when Israelis killed Palestinians, sparking renewed tit-for-tat violence. According to Nancy Kanwisher, Johannes Haushofer and Anat Biletzki, "79% of all conflict pauses were interrupted when Israel killed a Palestinian, while only 8% were interrupted by Palestinian attacks." The pattern was "more pronounced for longer conflict pauses. ... Of the 25 periods of nonviolence lasting longer than a week, Israel unilaterally interrupted 24, or 96%." Always give war a chance!"
This is in my view a PR disaster for Israel.
Kolya on 31/5/2010 at 11:52
BBC article about the Israeli storming of the aid ship: (
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm)
Glad you took the time to objectively think about the matter for a few minutes .
In case your plan does not work out for some reason, I suggest to disband the other armed force.
Zygoptera on 31/5/2010 at 12:01
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I'd then advocate total war and the expulsion of all Gazans
Actually, I'll amend what I say to make it absolutely fucking explicit.
Pogroms are bad and they're bad even if the ones committing them are Jews.
You really are a gigantic fucknuckle.
Illuminatus on 31/5/2010 at 12:05
The huge story of the day isn't that a democratically elected Hamas should be "disbanded" (whatever that means), it's that Israel killed NATO civilians in international waters on boats that flew under NATO flags. This isn't just a gross violation of international law, it's flirting with Article 5 of NATO's charter.
demagogue on 31/5/2010 at 12:23
I don't think I understood the proposal entirely either. Apparently it means that the members or supporters of Hamas disband themselves... But why would a population disband (1) the party they popularly elected into power and (2) their principal source of social security? I do think negotiations might have gone better for them if they had stayed unified behind Fatah, but then there's a legitimacy issue once you actually go through a free election, and the better answer is that they should have held off on democratic elections (the J curve argument). If it's another group that's supposed to be disbanding Hamas, then that's not even a proposal, just a wish.
Anyway, I was sympathetic to Abbas's thinking, which has a similar simple logic to it... The Palestinians should just declare statehood. That's what Israel did in '47. Just declare statehood with provisional borders, kindly ask Israelis to leave their sovereign territory, *then* invite them right back to the negotiating table to start all the tough negotiations like clarifying the border, security concerns, Jerusalem, refugees... Maybe a lot of those negotiations lag for 50 years, but at the same time for 90% of Palestinians they have a stable life in their own country. And as for Hamas, et al, it pulls the rug right out from under them; Gaza is pressured to join the new state, and then it becomes an internal police matter to deal with Hamas. I understand from the few things I've read that this requires Palestine to be self sufficient with their regulation and administration and they're not there yet, but that looks like a good thing for everybody, Palestinians, Israelis, and the world community, to get behind helping them get there.
SubJeff on 31/5/2010 at 12:28
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
Pogroms are bad and they're bad even if the ones committing them are Jews.
You really are a gigantic fucknuckle.
I'm no talking about a pogrom you dolt, but if all one country does is plan for and make war against you what do you do about it?
Muzman on 31/5/2010 at 12:28
Israel is a damn weird ...entity. Politically, it's pretty open and honest and discursive generally speaking. Democratic, you might say. However whenever it acts militarily, it's staggeringly, egregiously ruthless (since the mid seventies). They just do dumb things all the time, level peoples houses or blow holes through them as a tactic. Blow up anything and everything in sight, civilians, the UN, you name it, just lay waste to the landscape.
After a while you have to say "I get why you're a little jumpy. I do. But for fuck's sake."
Gryzemuis on 31/5/2010 at 13:05
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Anyways, I've been thinking this a while and here is my solution to the problem: disband Hamas
Anyways, I've been thinking this a while too. And here is my (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution) final solution to (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_question) the problem: why not gas all Israelis ?
Really, all you are doing is exactly reverting what happened to the Jews in WWII and before. You just switched the roles. The way Israel is threating Palestinians is terrible.
Israel is a full-blown racist state. The last racist state after South-Africa abandoned Apartheid. You get a passport because of your race, nothing else. The laws in Israel are different for Jews and non-Jews. There is a system with passes, just like there was in SA. There are new (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan) home-lands, just like in SA. The Palestinians are constantly repressed. They are not allowed to develop their economy and industries. As soon as things have been too quiet for a while, Israel will go and bomb the heck out of everything. Factories, energy plants, hospitals, schools, everything is destroyed once in a while, to keep the Palestinians poor and helpless. Israel controls water. The boycott of Gaza, the situation is Gaza is not much different from the situation in the Warsaw ghetto before deportations. They've build walls around the homelands, just like there was a wall around the Warsaw ghetto.
The Settlers are the biggest nazis in current times. They have no eye for anyone else. They do whatever the fuck they want. Ignoring their own government and laws, ignoring international law and protests. Have you ever seen interviews with them ? The righteousness that poors out of every pore of them ? The fantatism with which they claim they are the chosen people, and how they think they can do whatever they want ? And when someone of their own stands up to stop them (Rabin), they just shoot him.
The whole situation is just over the top. Has been for decades. And it is getting worse every decade. And nobody stops them. Nobody. Why ? I can see only 2 reasons:
1) Guilt. European countries feeling guilty for what happened in WWII.
2) The Jewish lobby. The strongest lobby in the US. All politicians listen to AIPAC, or they can forget their carreer. The pressure amongst non-Israeli Jews to never criticize Israel is huge. Here in NL we have a small group of jewish people who stand up against Israel. They get attacked by other Jews as if they are German Nazis.
Look at South-Africa. Now there was another fucked-up situation. But international pressure forced them to abandon Apartheid. And the transition has been very smooth. Thanks to people like Mandela and Desmond Tutu. I don't think the Palestinians will ever be that peaceful. And I know for sure the Israelis will never accept peace before actually firing of some nuclear missiles. But if there is going to be a solution in the middle east, you have to look at how the South-Africans did it.
Combine Israel and Palestine into one country. One parliament. One goverment. Everybody gets to vote. Forbid all laws that are about race or religion. Allow everybody to live anywhere where they can afford to buy a house. Allow them all to do any work or start any business they want. Separate State and Church completely.
Science flies us to the moon.
Religion flies us into buildings.
Israel and Palestine are bigger examples of that then 911 could ever be.
And yes. Just like my mother did when I was small. When 2 parties fight, I blame the stronger party. Because they are the ones who have the power to actually change something. And Israel doesn't want to change things. They just want to get rid of unwanted people. They just haven't found a final solution yet.
Kuuso on 31/5/2010 at 13:13
Suggestion: US needs to stop supporting Israel. They don't have any motives to make an actual peace, when they're supported by giants.
SubJeff on 31/5/2010 at 13:19
LittleFlower I agree with you on the one nation idea.
The rest of your post is some incredible BS.
