Hypothesis: No Hamas = No More Problems. For anyone. - by SubJeff
Namdrol on 2/6/2010 at 11:46
Quote Posted by Fragony
It's not for you to decide what everybody says.
Fragony, do you think it's any coincidence that Subjeff shut up once he realised you had his back in this thread?
hopper on 2/6/2010 at 11:51
Oh yeah, trust YouTube to tell it like it is.
Fragony on 2/6/2010 at 11:51
Awww Namdrol, you shouldn't think so lowly of yourselve. But yeah I'm good.
Morte on 2/6/2010 at 12:19
Quote Posted by Illuminatus
This misconception needs a little background. Far from shaking off this alliance, Erdogan invested a huge amount of time and effort as the chief mediator in the much needed Syria-Israel peace talks back in late 2008. The negotiations collapsed after Israel launched Operation Cast Lead (the Gaza War) which Olmert did not even warn Erdogan about. It was this slap in the face to the months of mediation, coupled with the massive civilian death toll that followed in Gaza, that led to Turkey's increasing critical language of the Israeli government. Personal sentiments aside, Erdogan would have a hard time justifying the continuing special relationship with Israel to his electorate (including significant military cooperation) in light of the increased bloodshed in Gaza. Netanyahu's election in 2009 (and his coalition with the far right Yisrael Beiteinu party) have only exacerbated these tensions.
True, the desire to disengage isn't something that arose out of nothing. The Gaza operations made supporting Isreal a dicey proposition for a politician. And Israel's been egging things on, going so far as to deliberately insult the Turkish ambassador.
Quote Posted by Fragony
Look mia muca, we will just have to see how irrational Israel's actions really were, and who is really in trouble. I am sure you didn't miss out on the deal Turkey and Brazil made with Iran, powerplay from Erdogan. Erdogan wants to get closer with Iran and the secular powers closer to the west.
Oh yeah, Turkey and Brazil negotiated with Iran until they agreed to turn over a bunch of uranium in exchange for fuel cells in order to avoid a new round of sanctions. How
horrible of them to try to reduce Iran's nuclear capability through negotiations. No wonder the Obama administration slapped them in the face for it.
Fragony on 2/6/2010 at 12:28
If you really can't see the difference between real politics in the international arena and talking heads on tv maybe you shouldn't try to make any sense out of it. That deal is a pretty big deal.
Muzman on 2/6/2010 at 12:58
Wait, so where are we now?
The incident was centred around a bunch of Turkish backed Islamist militants who hopped aboard/helped organise an aid/ protest flotilla from Turkey into Gaza with the intent of running the blockade, getting boarded by the Israeli army, attacking them so that they'd fight back and getting killed or badly wounded in the process...
... so that Israel would look bad internationally and in Turkey and this would mildy destabalise the Turkish government.
Is that a good summary? Seriously, cause that's what I'm getting now and that's some Pinky and The Brain shit right there. I know armchair political analysts like to assess every micro manouvre like it means something in a vast web of intrigue, but you have to wait at least a week before you settle on your soon to be DaVinci Code-esq signs and wonders, I would think.
Perfectly happy to accept some unpleasant types were aboard with a club or two and took delight in wailing on some IDF guys. The rest, at this point, not so much.
Fragony on 2/6/2010 at 13:10
Quote Posted by Muzman
Wait, so where are we now?
The incident was centred around a bunch of Turkish backed Islamist militants who hopped aboard/helped organise an aid/ protest flotilla from Turkey into Gaza with the intent of running the blockade, getting boarded by the Israeli army, attacking them so that they'd fight back and getting killed or badly wounded in the process...
Well yes that's about it.
Brian The Dog on 2/6/2010 at 13:31
Quote Posted by Muzman
Wait, so where are we now?
The incident was centred around a bunch of Turkish backed Islamist militants who hopped aboard/helped organise an aid/ protest flotilla from Turkey into Gaza with the intent of running the blockade, getting boarded by the Israeli army, attacking them so that they'd fight back and getting killed or badly wounded in the process...
... so that Israel would look bad internationally and in Turkey and this would mildy destabalise the Turkish government.
Is that a good summary?
Yep, that's probably a good summary - except for the militants bit. They are just probably "peace activists" whose idea of peace is to bash soldiers over the head with sticks. The real militants are too busy firing rockets at Israel.
I'm just a bit astonished that Israel fell for the bait - I had a chat with an Iranian guy here at work (who's definitely not a friend of Islamic extremists!) and he said the whole thing's a publicity stunt. They were shipping stuff that'd be turned back by the Israelis but would seem "OK" to the rest of the world, the whole reason they did this rather than go through ports in Israel and land borders was for the publicity.
Morte on 2/6/2010 at 13:58
Quote Posted by Muzman
Wait, so where are we now?
The incident was centred around a bunch of Turkish backed Islamist militants who hopped aboard/helped organise an aid/ protest flotilla from Turkey into Gaza with the intent of running the blockade, getting boarded by the Israeli army, attacking them so that they'd fight back and getting killed or badly wounded in the process...
... so that Israel would look bad internationally and in Turkey and this would mildy destabalise the Turkish government.
Is that a good summary? Seriously, cause that's what I'm getting now and that's some Pinky and The Brain shit right there. I know armchair political analysts like to assess every micro manouvre like it means something in a vast web of intrigue, but you have to wait at least a week before you settle on your soon to be DaVinci Code-esq signs and wonders, I would think.
Perfectly happy to accept some unpleasant types were aboard with a club or two and took delight in wailing on some IDF guys. The rest, at this point, not so much.
Just to be clear, I didn't twig to Fragony's insinuation that Erdogan orchestrated the whole thing in between mustache twirlings, and I certainly don't agree with it. I blame it on not having to parse his nonsense in a while.
