Hypothesis: No Hamas = No More Problems. For anyone. - by SubJeff
hopper on 2/6/2010 at 10:31
Quote Posted by Fragony
Decides who.
So say we all. Your theory that this was a clever plot to limit the power of Turkey's military strengthens our case.
Fragony on 2/6/2010 at 10:38
Quote Posted by hopper
So say we all.
It's not for you to decide what everybody says.
Ah well I have some filing to do then, c for clueless of you go.
Morte on 2/6/2010 at 10:46
Quote Posted by Fragony
In the real world Erdogan is trying to limit the power of the Turkish army, traditionally pro-Israel. Everybody with at least some knowledge of international politics understands what happened here.
Shockingly, this actually isn't wrong. Yes, historically Turkey is one of the few allies Israel has had in the muslim world. The current goeverment would like to change that, but they've been facing resistance from secularists and the army. And because of this incident and how Israel chose to respond to it, there's demonstrations in the streets and they have a fantastic excuse to break off that relationship, just like Erdogan wants.
Everyone can understand that, so what does that say about the competency of Netanyahu? How is this a gain for Israel? It was just a terrible, retarded thing to do.
Matthew on 2/6/2010 at 10:50
Exactly! Netanyahu, according to Radio 4 this morning, has a 61% approval rating for the action within Israel itself, but he's just managed to piss off what amounts to their lone ally in that part of the world even more than they already had, plus they have a net export trade relationship with the country and several close military ties.
Fragony on 2/6/2010 at 10:50
@Morte, Almost everyone. Hopper doesn't.
@Mathew, maybe they expect the Turkish military to act in a certain way.
hopper on 2/6/2010 at 11:27
Quote Posted by Fragony
@Morte, Almost everyone. Hopper doesn't.
Unshockingly, this actually is wrong. Whatever windfall Erdogan may enjoy from Israel's stupid reaction to it, doesn't mean that the attempt by private organizations to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza was a plot orchestrated to limit the military's power in Turkey, which is what you were getting at. That would be a positive side benefit from Erdogan's (and presumably the organisations') perspective at best, if the events would unfold as they did, which they could not rely on. But certainly not the purpose of the mission.
Illuminatus on 2/6/2010 at 11:37
Quote Posted by Morte
historically Turkey is one of the few allies Israel has had in the muslim world. The current goeverment would like to change that
This misconception needs a little background. Far from shaking off this alliance, Erdogan invested a huge amount of time and effort as the chief mediator in the much needed Syria-Israel peace talks back in late 2008. The negotiations collapsed after Israel launched Operation Cast Lead (the Gaza War) which Olmert did not even warn Erdogan about. It was this slap in the face to the months of mediation, coupled with the massive civilian death toll that followed in Gaza, that led to Turkey's increasing critical language of the Israeli government. Personal sentiments aside, Erdogan would have a hard time justifying the continuing special relationship with Israel to his electorate (including significant military cooperation) in light of the increased bloodshed in Gaza. Netanyahu's election in 2009 (and his coalition with the far right Yisrael Beiteinu party) have only exacerbated these tensions.
Fragony on 2/6/2010 at 11:39
Look mia muca, we will just have to see how irrational Israel's actions really were, and who is really in trouble. I am sure you didn't miss out on the deal Turkey and Brazil made with Iran, powerplay from Erdogan. Erdogan wants to get closer with Iran and the secular powers closer to the west. Turkey is one of the most violently secular country's in the world a coup is always waiting to happen when secular forces are challenged. Who is really being played, Israel isn't any less hated and the army might just mob up current Turkish government of they dislike where this is heading.
Jokerman on 2/6/2010 at 11:41
Quote Posted by Rug Burn Junky
It takes a very special kind of self delusion to convince oneself that Israel is somehow the victim of a "PR stunt" or "liberal agenda" in this instance.
It takes a very (unfortunately) common bias and willful ignorance to convince oneself that it isn't so.
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ1945WsNWk)
