Tulsidas on 9/11/2006 at 08:43
Quote Posted by Bomb Bloke
So he effectively said, "return and be killed", regardless of his intentions.
And yet, sensible people returned to what is now the second most Muslim populated country in the world.
Quote Posted by Bomb Bloke
So either it's a mis-quote, or Gandhi stuffed up. You can't be an apple and an orange. Sure, you can have characteristics of either or both, but that doesn't
make you both.
It's not about
being an apple or an orange so much as it's about
liking and
having them both.
Thus if I could not accept Christianity either as a perfect, or the greatest religion, neither was I then convinced of Hinduism being such. Hindu defects were pressingly visible to me. If untouchability could be a part of Hinduism, it could but be a rotten part or an excrescence. I could not understand the raison d'etre of a multitude of sects and castes. What was the meaning of saying that the Vedas were the inspired Word of God? If they were inspired, why not also the Bible and the Koran? As Christian friends were endeavouring to convert me, so were Muslim friends.
Nicker on 9/11/2006 at 09:51
Quote Posted by Bomb Bloke
So he effectively said, "return and be killed", regardless of his intentions.
Incorrect again. His intention was for mindful, peaceful resolution. The fact that other forces confounded that intention doesn't change it or the meaning of what he said.
Myoldnamebroke on 9/11/2006 at 10:07
Quote Posted by Bomb Bloke
So either it's a mis-quote, or Gandhi stuffed up. You can't be an apple and an orange. Sure, you can have characteristics of either or both, but that doesn't
make you both.
But that's not the context in which he was speaking. The point is, he could remain very clearly a Hindu at the same time as understanding and respecting other religions. I'm not sure he would ever have claimed to have actually been a Muslim or a Christian in the same sense as in Life of Pi, and I'm certain he would have understood and been well aware of the distinction you're making. But he was an extremely astute political campaigner, and when you're trying to demonstrate anything to a large group of people you need soundbites, a pithy slogan to carry your message.
Tulsidas on 9/11/2006 at 10:22
Quote Posted by TheGreatGodPan
The jews said he couldn't be one after he said they should have willingly submitted to the Holocaust, not even attempting to flee.
I keep wondering if the Jew really
had any able leaders. To paraphrase William Shatner -
If it lives, it can be reasoned with. But for that to happen, you need exceptional leaders to represent you.
It's such a disgrace to just
flee.
Bomb Bloke on 9/11/2006 at 13:28
I commented on the quotes as I read them. Gandhi recommended people go to a place where they would be in great danger, and also said that he was a follower of contradicting religions.
I'm not saying Gandhi wanted people to die. I was simply explaining why Pan was correct in that he was giving instructions that could have that result. I've already stated that this was probably unrelated to his intentions.
On the other hand, saying you respect Jews and Christians is quite a different matter to saying you are both. Nor can you "have" a religion: You follow one. And if you claim to follow two religions that contradict, then you are either ignorant of your subject matter or lying.
So, I stick by my point that it was either a misquote, or Gandhi stuffed up. I can't see any way that "context" could change the meaning of the statement I read above. The phrase he used was "I am", not "I like", "I respect", or "I'm like".
Matthew on 9/11/2006 at 14:02
I suggest you may want to look up the meaning of the words 'simile' and 'metaphor'.
Tulsidas on 9/11/2006 at 14:14
Quote Posted by Bomb Bloke
So, I stick by my point that it was either a misquote, or Gandhi stuffed up. I can't see any way that "context" could change the meaning of the statement I read above. The phrase he used was "I am", not "I like", "I respect", or "I'm like".
you a hindu?
Yes I
am. I
am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew.
Do you
like Hinduism?
Yes i
do. I also
like Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and Judaism.
Myoldnamebroke on 9/11/2006 at 18:50
Quote Posted by Bomb Bloke
So, I stick by my point that it was either a misquote, or Gandhi stuffed up. I can't see any way that "context" could change the meaning of the statement I read above. The phrase he used was "I am", not "I like", "I respect", or "I'm like".
Here's an example of context:
1) I am having a theological discussion with academics
2) I am the revered leader of a mass movement in a country where communal tensions are running high
He's not 'stuffed up' if you take a moment to think about his goals.
TheGreatGodPan on 9/11/2006 at 19:34
Quote Posted by Fingernail
Well, Jesus would say "turn the other cheek" and HE was a Jew.
He also said "He who does not have a sword, let him sell his cloak and buy one". I think that quote is related to the one about resolving your dispute with your brother before asking God to forgive your sins and is about long-running grudges rather than defending your life. During the partition there wasn't massive slapping of cheeks, but massive slaughtering. Ghandi simply didn't think people should try to save themselves as he considered it more noble to give your life willingly.
Quoting a character played by William Shatner on tv is probably not a good way to approach the issue.
paloalto on 9/11/2006 at 20:07
At least in Ghandi's religious practices he was a hindu.Although he drew inspiration from the Sermon on the Mount.
