Aerothorn on 5/11/2006 at 22:32
Quote Posted by Dia
The same human rights he granted his victims.
What the hell. I remember in grade school, they always reiterated time and time again that "he hit me first" was not an excuse. Then I grow up and everyone says it is. What's the deal?
I think we all know what Gandhi has to say about this. I can't even explain my reasoning on this, it's just so ingrained. What's the point in a judicial system if you're not gonna have even a pretense of fair trials? Why not just stone to death everyone who express an unpopular opinion?
Everyone agreed that there was no way Saddam could get a fair trial in Iraq, but both the USA and Iraq refused to have him tried in an international court, as they don't give death sentences.
Quote Posted by Fingernail
HELLO GEORGE BUSH ARE YOU ACTUALLY A CHRISTIAN
Considering Jesus' famous quote about a rich man's chances of getting into heaven, I sure hope not, for his sake.
BEAR on 6/11/2006 at 00:37
Im always somewhat surprised by the vehemence associated with Saddam. Especially when a) what he's done has never affected almost anyone in america, other than our war with him and b) we've done as bad to iraq as he ever did, yet people say things like "rot in hell", as if he raped their fucking mother or somthing.
Personally, I dont know the guy so I dont feel good about saying "well he can rot in hell" reminds me of overhearing conversations of rednecks afer 9/11, hearing people say "lol if I ever saw osama I would totally shoot him in the face" as if joe fucking blow from america knows whats going on at all.
Its not that I really
care, so much as it seems odd to hear people congratulating the death of someone they have never met and have no understanding of whatso ever.
The funny thing is I totally understand the feeling people get though when they say/think, its like people when people can come together to hate somthing it feels good.
Its like killing him means anything now, like it vindicates somthing. I think it shows how fucking stupid we are. Hey! Who cares if your child is dead and your home is in ruins, we're going to put him to death, your troubles are over! Hurrah america!
We should have assasinated him long ago if we wanted to take over iraq, its like going into a fucking highly populated city, killing a thousand innocent people, and trying to CAPTURE the bad guy, who then gets a trial? We dont need proof to kill people we know are innocent. They were calculated risks, we knew it would happen no matter what, yet proof of genocide matters before we can execute him?
Yes, due process means so much to us we will kill your family members and royaly fuck things up so that we can capture some asshole.
Before you get your panties in a wad and say I love saddam or terrorism or hate the troops, forget it. This was a poorly thought out spur of the moment post, so dont waste your time being pissed about it. Also this surely wont affect the elections.
Quote Posted by Aerothorn
Considering Jesus' famous quote about a rich man's chances of getting into heaven, I sure hope not, for his sake.
As if christianity has anything to do with jesus anymore? The christains would crucify jesus for being a pinko-hippy fag.
Scots Taffer on 6/11/2006 at 00:43
People expressing that Hitler, say, should rot in hell would surely be joined by most in their sentiments - as the man, as well as his followers, murdered thousands and destroyed the lives of millions and created a world where war was paramount for a number of years. Similarly with Saddam except you remove the justification of war (no invasions going on, in this instance) with an added importance on the lesser numbers of people killed, but that could also be a byproduct of having stood testament to the effects of WWII and any mass murder should be condemned with the same veracity in order to stop events snowballing into another global war.
Ultraviolet on 6/11/2006 at 01:13
BEAR: It's the 1984 two-minutes hate thing. (I had to look up how many minutes, been a while since I read that.)
Scots: zomg godwin'd :P There's just a lot of hypocrisy on the subject, though. We (the public, that is; I've never held that the people are the nation, as the will of the population is irrelevant and the nation is expressed by the government, whose will it is that we follow) never did anything about Stalin (I can't remember who had the bigger bodycount, him or Hitler -- and in the case of Stalin we haven't even found all the bodies), and then later on, after Stalin, we're all raging about OMG TEH EVAL COMMUNISM. You know, after the fact. Just raging, not doing anything about it. And now, with the whole LOL KILL THE RAGHEADS thing going on, people are still raging after the damage has been done. And it's not like the most vocal people are joining the army to go out and support their cause. They're just raging vocally.
I have seen some very avid anti-raghead types come back very much changed by Iraq, though. Seeing friends blown up must really change your reality a bit.
Scots Taffer on 6/11/2006 at 01:14
Quote Posted by Ultraviolet
Scots: zomg godwin'd :P There's just a lot of hypocrisy on the subject, though. We never did anything about Stalin (I can't remember who had the bigger bodycount, him or Hitler -- and in the case of Stalin we haven't even found all the bodies), and then later on, after Stalin, we're all raging about OMG TEH EVAL COMMUNISM. You know, after the fact. Just raging, not doing anything about it. And now, with the whole LOL KILL THE RAGHEADS thing going on, people are still raging after the damage has been done. And it's not like the most vocal people are joining the army to go out and support their cause. They're just raging vocally.
Let's be clear here: I never said
ANYTHING about the justification for war, I was talking purely about the reasoning behind the "burn in hell" sentiments.
I personally think Bush and Blair should fucking hang.
Aerothorn on 6/11/2006 at 01:20
Speaking of hanging...
WHY do they have to hang Saddam? Is there a reason they can't just execute him by lethal injection or firing squad or something that isn't essentially torture ending in death? Dead is dead, right?
And don't give me any of this "Would Saddam have executed his enemies humanely?" bullshit, the whole point (theoretically) is that the current leadership of Iraq aren't as monstrous and Saddam, and they should show it by being more humane.
But as I said, just theoretically.
Because in the end, aren't we all just middle-eastern dictators?
TheGreatGodPan on 6/11/2006 at 01:38
I've no problem with this. Victor's justice is always victor's justice no matter how much they try to dress it up. Whatever he did was legal by virture of the fact that he was the government and made the laws. He ain't anymore so the law is what the people with guns now say, and they say Saddam should burn in hell. We could kill his relatives while we're at it and we'd still be better than him. I hope nobody who was in favor of invading other countries to remedy injustice or whatnot is upset about this sort of thing. If the liberated people aren't hell-bent on killing the old ruler that serves as evidence his rule wasn't so bad.
Ultraviolet on 6/11/2006 at 01:43
Quote Posted by Scots_Taffer
Let's be clear here: I never said
ANYTHING about the justification for war, I was talking purely about the reasoning behind the "burn in hell" sentiments.
I personally think Bush and Blair should fucking hang.
And the reasoning behind the "burn in hell" statements is that hate keeps a politically manipulable cycle afloat.
paloalto on 6/11/2006 at 02:06
They should have delayed any trial and threatened to reinstate him if the Iraq's can't put aside their tribal feuds and form a working government.184 lives looks rather silly when you compare the numbers that are growing with Shia killing Sunnis and vice versa.Judging by the generational hatred between these groups,I'd say they deserved Saddam for the time he was there.
I was reading that the British tried the same thing in Iraq,forming a government, with the same result that you see now,bickering and fighting between the Sunnis and the Shia using Islam as a tool for their hatred of each other.
Doesn't anybody read history in the current administration?
BEAR on 6/11/2006 at 04:36
Yeah, before they kill him they should ask how to rule iraq, because he was the only one apparently who knew.
Also, I'd be careful, they might just prefer saddam back in power. At least he was one of them, and not a foreigner.
