Bakerman on 10/7/2013 at 10:13
Quote Posted by Flavia
I mean, previous games made really good job allowing us to play however we wanted, not judging, not punishing
See Alpha Protocol for a game that made you various in-mission choices significant, but didn't necessarily 'favour' one path over another. You could be a bloodthirsty assassin or a wouldn't-hurt-a-fly ghost (to some extent), and different characters would respond in different ways - some negative, some positive.
To be honest, I'd really love to see a Thief game with Alpha Protocol's detailed storyline and character interaction. I don't think dialogue trees are very appropriate for a Thief game, especially since Garrett's character is well-established and shouldn't be malleable. But I'd love to see if you could pull them off in a way that let you 'play' the various characters in the story - different dialogue options not representing Garrett having different personalities, but just trying to manipulate the other characters in various ways.
Also, somewhat in reaction to rumours about Thief 4's story: I'd love to see an Asian-inspired faction in the City. Nothing to do with ninjas, please - having read the basics of Daoist philosophy, I reckon the focus on asceticism could be very interesting to pit against the materialism of the Hammers and Mechanists. Garrett himself is also a materialist by trade if not by philosophy, so I reckon it'd be a nice conflict to explore.
SeriousCallersOnly on 10/7/2013 at 11:22
It'd turn out pretty much like the dark mod with much larger maps with wide-views (yes, yes, spare me the video of that thing i can't run).
Possibly with some crazy 'mission generator' much like a better daggerfall dungeon generator, but for urban neighbourhoods and tombs.
I don't care about narrative or voice acting in thief. Thief narrative was dumb after thief 1 anyway.
Flavia on 10/7/2013 at 11:58
Quote Posted by Bakerman
See Alpha Protocol for a game that made you various in-mission choices significant, but didn't necessarily 'favour' one path over another. You could be a bloodthirsty assassin or a wouldn't-hurt-a-fly ghost (to some extent), and different characters would respond in different ways - some negative, some positive.
To be honest, I'd really love to see a Thief game with Alpha Protocol's detailed storyline and character interaction. I don't think dialogue trees are very appropriate for a Thief game, especially since Garrett's character is well-established and shouldn't be malleable. But I'd love to see if you could pull them off in a way that let you 'play' the various characters in the story - different dialogue options not representing Garrett having different personalities, but just trying to manipulate the other characters in various ways.
Yes, that could work - especially with plot like the one I posted above, when Garrett would have to care not only about immediate results of his actions, but also long-term consequences that his nemesis could take advantage of.
I'm only against treating ghosting as the only legitimate way around.
Quote Posted by SeriousCallersOnly
It'd turn out pretty much like the dark mod with much larger maps with wide-views (yes, yes, spare me the video of that thing i can't run).
And less hatred for Radeon graphic cards :p
Quote Posted by SeriousCallersOnly
I don't care about narrative or voice acting in thief. Thief narrative was dumb after thief 1 anyway.
And that's what I'd like to see changed! :D
(But for the record - I think it was dumb in T1 too)
Chade on 10/7/2013 at 12:25
Quote Posted by Springheel
I think I'd try to boost the "sim" element and make the stealth a little bit more realistic ... This would make things more difficult for the player, but this would force them to rely more on their tools. I've always thought using tools should be a big part of the game, but in Thief I find myself often not using them because they make things too easy.
Got to admit I'm always a bit skeptical of increasing the simulation, particularly once you start talking about silhouttes and guard vision adjusting to the light and so forth. Still, I could be convinced ...
I very much agree about tool use. Some of my favorite thief moments came not all that long after I started playing, doing things like using broadhead arrows to provide targetted distractions to slip away from guards who were about to find me. Unfortunately, the better you get, the less interactive the game becomes. I'd be quite happy if expert play involved Garrett's tools to some extent, even if it meant redefining ghosting a little.
Quote Posted by Flavia
I'd like to see Garrett meeting some sort of pioneer detective. That would give a game a totally new dynamic. Our thief would have to not only steal, but also make sure to not leave traces his opponent could use. Like not dropping important notes near the beginning of the mission. Wiping shoes before entering shiny clean mansion. Not dealing with wrong fence. Making sure his servant girlfriend, who let him inside the mansion, won't be suspected. And mess with investigation as much as he can. That would leave place for missions like spying, infiltration, maybe breaking intro a watch station to destroy evidence.
So dark camelot bcomes dark sherlock?
operativex on 11/7/2013 at 00:56
Quote Posted by Springheel
I think I'd try to boost the "sim" element and make the stealth a little bit more realistic. Change the way sound works so that surfaces are more realistic--tile would actually be very easy to walk quietly on, but gravel or creaky wood would be quite hard. AI would have multiple traces hitting the player randomly, so that partial concealment behind objects increases your chances of hiding, even in light (allowing for reasonable daylight missions). AI behaviour would be more sophisticated--they would search in teams, move to protect important places when alerted, and notice when their environment was altered (notice a suspicious pile of crates, for example).
This would make things more difficult for the player, but this would force them to rely more on their tools. I've always thought using tools should be a big part of the game, but in Thief I find myself often not using them because they make things too easy.
Too balance out the added difficulty, I'd factor in light sensitivity, so that AI that just came out of a brightly lit room would take a few moments to adjust to darkness, and would be unable to see the player. The player would then be able to make plans based on where AI are looking (like intentionally tossing a distraction near a bright light, so the AI looks at it and is temporarily blinded), and make it so AI can't automatically tell the player's footsteps from some other guards.
Those are the areas I'd be putting "next gen" power into.
I would agree with this. I would like to see more elements of the game simulated and the environments more "open." The idea of rope arrow attachments or certain ledges that allow for mantling is an awful idea.
Part of the beauty of T1/T2 rope arrows was that since they could stick into any wood surface, it made the player feel like they had discovered a new route/infiltration path even if the devs purposefully textured that surface as wood. When you have pre-placed attachment points (regardless of how well/usefully they are placed) for rope arrows or mantling, players immediately see design from the developers and lose a sense of discovery on their part.
I would also improve the maps in Thief 4, too. I wouldn't go so far as to add a minimap, but the maps in the Thief series are just plain inaccurate and wrong at times.
Starker on 11/7/2013 at 03:24
Quote Posted by operativex
the maps in the Thief series are just plain inaccurate and wrong at times.
Um... that was deliberate. They were intentionally left vague. T2 made them a bit more detailed, but I don't know if it was a step in the right direction necessarily. Just how many games are there that you can get lost in, literally?
Springheel on 11/7/2013 at 03:26
Quote:
the maps in the Thief series are just plain inaccurate and wrong at times.
Of course they are! :) Isn't that the point? A real thief would be unlikely to get a perfect map.
operativex on 11/7/2013 at 03:39
Quote Posted by Springheel
Of course they are! :) Isn't that the point? A real thief would be unlikely to get a perfect map.
I can understand vague but does every single map need to be so inaccurate and in some cases misleading? That's incredibly frustrating and something I would forgive for being unrealistic for the sake of creating a better experience. If I were Garret I would fire his map maker. A good portion of the places he loots he could've paid a former servant/laborer etc to draw an accurate map.
Don't give me a minimap or even mark my position, but at least give me something I can work with.
Starker on 11/7/2013 at 05:05
A big part of the Thief experience was that you were the intruder and you didn't know what you were getting into. Vague and inaccurate maps can be a big help for creating the feeling that you are in a hostile territory and that something could go wrong at any moment.
Chade on 11/7/2013 at 05:33
On a scale of thief 1 = 1 to thief 2 = 10, I think I'd like a 3.
