The Shroud on 3/6/2022 at 11:58
I've been reminiscing about the Thief series lately, and all that I love and...don't love about the first two games. One thing in particular about TMA that has never sat well with me is Garrett's grudging alliance with Viktoria in the cutscene following Trail of Blood. So I decided to put together my own version. It goes without saying that my personal take on this part of TMA's plot is entirely subjective, but this is how I would have expected that scene to play out:
Garrett moves cautiously through the forest, an arrow nocked on his bow, scanning his surroundings for threats. The trees shift, the ground rumbles, and a familiar spriggan magically manifests before him.
Viktoria: Garrett.
Garrett: Viktoria...
Viktoria: (giving a derisive chuckle) Garrett. Who is it you wish to fight? Me? Or my thistleaids? Heh, or the sycamore?
Garrett: Just you.
Viktoria: I am not the enemy, Garrett. Nor anyone here. Here is your enemy — Mechanists. It's no secret that they wish to destroy you, too... hero that you are. Regardless, you will join us in our struggle against them.
Garrett: Join you? Not really my first choice.
Viktoria: Choice?! My choice is to avenge the death of a friend! You understand nothing of suffering and duty! Pathetic manfool! In one moment, I could—
Diane rebuke's Viktoria's heated temper in their strange, wordless language, and Viktoria relents.
Viktoria: (sighing) The past is the past. Now we have an enemy in common. Even you must see that this is so.
Garrett: I seem to have a lot of enemies lately. Anyway, you have matters well in hand.
Viktoria: It is true that I am powerful. But I draw my strength from this place. Where the Mechanists are, I am... not... so assured of victory.
Garrett: Pity...
Viktoria: I have no time for your vengeful thoughts, and biting words. But be assured, Garrett — you are stronger with us than without us.
Garrett: Stronger with you? In case you've forgotten, you and your friend tried to sacrifice me to these savages and almost destroyed the world. I'm not interested in teaming up with your kind.
Viktoria: Sometimes enemies must join forces to overcome a more terrible foe. I would have thought you would understand that better than anyone, after your... alliance with the Hammerites.
Garrett: I'm not so convinced about which foe is more terrible. Your last demonstration left a pretty lasting impression on my point of view... (closeup on Garrett's narrowed mechanical eye)
Viktoria: The Woodsie Lord is dead, Garrett. You killed him. And without his influence, the Mechanists' power has risen unchecked, and will continue to rise until there is no one left to oppose them. They are the real threat to this world now. Are you too blind to see that?
Garrett: As far as I'm concerned, my biggest problem has already been dealt with. With Truart gone, business for me should pick up nicely. Guess I can thank you and Lieutenant Mosley for that little favor, heh. As for your problem... Tell you what — you pagans can settle your score with the Mechanists and... I'll take my chances on my own. I'm done fighting others' battles. (Garrett stows his bow and turns around, heading away from Viktoria and her allies)
Viktoria: (Angrily calling after Garrett as he leaves) You are an even blinder fool than I thought if you truly believe the Mechanists are a lesser threat to you than the Sheriff, Garrett... But so be it. I'll not waste any more of my time arguing with a petty, stubborn manfool. Come, Diane, Larkspur — there is much to be done...
And then, of course, Garrett would in fact continue his investigations into what the Mechanists are up to — independently. Maybe he'd decide on his own to sneak into Angelwatch, or perhaps he'd receive another little nudge from the Keepers to seek answers there. Everything useful he actually learned about Karras's plot was gained from his own hunting anyway, from the moment he broke into Angelwatch to when he journeyed to Markham's Isle, Karath Din, and so on. Viktoria and her pagan spies weren't really particularly helpful if we're being honest. That being said, I can see Garrett later beginning to grudgingly work with the pagans as the plot approaches the eleventh hour (perhaps even somewhat regretting his previous refusal to join forces with them), and the full implications of Karras's plans become clearer. That would have been a lot more dramatically effective as the plot nears its climax, in my opinion.
Anyhow, this is (some of) how I would have restructured TMA's storyline.
downwinder on 3/6/2022 at 18:07
one thing you missed in the entire conversation,garrett at some point should have said you took my "eye" left me for dead,and now you want help lol
i never understood how when woodsie lord and viktoria took his eye,like nothing more was mentioned about it to viktoria later as they were meeting,i feel garrett was weak for letting that go
Azaran on 3/6/2022 at 18:30
Yeah if I was Garrett, I'd be pretty pissed about my eye, not sure what I'd do in the moment, but I wouldn't let that slide
Esse on 3/6/2022 at 23:31
I think it was suggested in older discussions that Viktoria may have used some kind of charm spell on Garrett, and that's why his reflexes were so slow and he seemed so out of character. I also wonder if the blood/sap oath she made was such a powerful binding magic that Garrett was unable to raise a hand against her. I wonder if this would've been explored more if Thief 2 Gold had materialized. Might be an interesting angle for an FM to pursue.
Briareos H on 4/6/2022 at 07:37
Quote Posted by downwinder
one thing you missed in the entire conversation,garrett at some point should have said you took my "eye" left me for dead,and now you want help lol
🤔
Quote Posted by The Shroud
Garrett: Stronger
with you? In case you've
forgotten, you and your
friend tried to
sacrifice me to these savages and almost destroyed
the world. I'm not
interested in teaming up with your kind.
[...]
Garrett: I'm not so
convinced about which foe is more
terrible. Your last
demonstration left a pretty
lasting impression on my point of view...
(closeup on Garrett's narrowed mechanical eye)The Shroud on 4/6/2022 at 12:27
Quote Posted by downwinder
one thing you missed in the entire conversation,garrett at some point should have said you took my "eye" left me for dead,and now you want help lol
i never understood how when woodsie lord and viktoria took his eye,like nothing more was mentioned about it to viktoria later as they were meeting,i feel garrett was weak for letting that go
Briareos summed up my references to this (thanks, Briareos). Also, I feel the writing should be at least slightly less on the nose than, "You took my eye," especially taking into account Garrett's own proclivity for sarcastic understatements and sardonic innuendo. But I wholeheartedly agree with your larger point — it is entirely out of character for Garrett to shrug off something so unforgivable and just look past his hatred in favor of focusing his attention on... well (let's be honest), what the story
wants him to focus on. It felt forced when I first saw it all those years ago, and it still feels forced.
Quote Posted by Azaran
Yeah if I was Garrett, I'd be pretty pissed about my eye, not sure what I'd do in the moment, but I wouldn't let that slide
Yeah. I mean, Garrett has far less tolerance for even the
Keepers, and they never even did him dirty. This is not a guy who lets go of old resentments. Pretty much everything we know about Garrett's personality suggests the diametric opposite of his behavior in agreeing to work with (or even bothering to listen to) Viktoria: he's stubbornly independent, bitter, and defiant to a fault — even when it might arguably be wiser for him to be more cooperative (as in his dealings with the Keepers). Anyone telling him what to do — like Viktoria's smug, "you will join us" — is pretty much guaranteed the opposite result.
And imagine the barely suppressed
rage of this man, after Viktoria deceived him, used him, didn't pay him what was promised after all his hard work over the course of five (or in Thief Gold's case, seven) painstaking missions, ripped his eye from its socket, left him to be
eaten alive by the Trickster's minions, and now is arrogantly commanding him to
join her. Ohh-hoho, best believe she's got another thing coming. I'll speak for myself here, but that felt like a slap to
my face as the player, let alone literally adding insult to injury to Garrett. I wanted her tree-sappy
blood in that moment (credit to the writers up to that point for instilling such a visceral hatred of their former villain in the player) — but we never got our revenge. That still feels like a terrible injustice and an unfulfilled promise in the plot, honestly.
Quote Posted by Esse
I think it was suggested in older discussions that Viktoria may have used some kind of charm spell on Garrett, and that's why his reflexes were so slow and he seemed so out of character. I also wonder if the blood/sap oath she made was such a powerful binding magic that Garrett was unable to raise a hand against her. I wonder if this would've been explored more if
Thief 2 Gold had materialized. Might be an interesting angle for an FM to pursue.
I wouldn't doubt that that oath held some magical power in preventing betrayal by either party. As for a charm spell which alters Garrett's behavior just by being in Viktoria's presence... nah, I don't think so. For one thing, something like that would have needed to be communicated more clearly and tangibly to the viewer in order to not be missed (possibly even adding reflections from Garrett like, "What did that witch do to me?"), and I rather doubt the writers would have made such a blatant oversight if that was indeed the intent. But more to the point, I think there's really another culprit at work here: a notable weakness in TMA's writing in general. If you compare the caliber of TDP's screenwriting, as well as its in-game texts, to that of TMA, you'll likely notice a significant drop in overall quality. It's not
terrible but it's clearly not on the same level as the writing in TDP. This is reinforced by Randy Smith's comments about how the team took the opposite approach to TMA's story from what they did in TDP, choosing to build missions first and then retrofitting the plot to fit the missions — and Randy's own admissions about the hit TMA's story took from that decision.
It probably doesn't help that Terri Brosius, who wrote the script, was also the voice of Viktoria, likely had a particular fondness for her character, and may well have been a little biased when it came to how persuasive and irresistible she envisioned Viktoria being toward Garrett — even to the point of eliciting a panicked,
"VIKTORIAAA!!!" from him when she martyrs herself at the end, followed by an outraged,
"Karras!" (both of which even further breach believability for me). We're supposed to believe that Garrett has not only moved past what Viktoria did to him, but really
cares about her now and can't stand to lose her. I just don't buy it. That's definitely not the Garrett I know. Not that I can actually think of
anyone who would react that way to someone who so grievously wronged them on so many levels. It reeks of Twilight-level melodrama.
Esse on 4/6/2022 at 16:36
I wouldn't call it "Twilight-level melodrama" - it feels like that's a more apt term for other narratives in the series - but that's my opinion and my opinion alone. I do agree, however, that I could see some bias in having a VA/character creator write that particular part of the story. I also agree that the story should've come first and the missions structured after to fit the plot.
With all of this said, I feel that TMA's story is about a taming of the wilderness, in a sense, and that extends to Garrett. Whereas TDP delved into the dark, feral corners of the world and Constantine's plots, TMA deals with the dark, unchecked corners of human society. As society is encroaching on the Pagans and the green spaces of the City, so too is Garrett's humanity encroaching on his more selfish, id-based desires. Even with his cold, calculating logic and general distaste for people, Garrett can't abide a city being turned into literal dust. I feel Viktoria was somehow a key to exploring that, but as you said, TMA's story direction took a hit and we ended up with what we have.
The Shroud on 4/6/2022 at 19:28
Yeah, that's fair. I feel those are all valid and reasonable points. As for a FM project which attempts to restructure the story in TMA and offer a tighter, more plausible take on how the plot and missions should go... I'd definitely love to see that.
downwinder on 4/6/2022 at 19:52
if tma ever was redone ,i feel they should go the darker path/magic as a dev said the wanted to go but no time for it
Esse on 4/6/2022 at 21:06
Did anyone ever see in the notes published from that dev's journal whether or not TMA Gold would've delved into Viktoria and Garrett's alliance more? I know there was a planned heist mission at a necromancer's compound.
