SubJeff on 8/2/2006 at 20:02
I agree that it's a clever zing Monkeysee. I'm looking forward to seeing these cartoons because I really want to see if any of them can be edgy and dark but funny at the same time. And there'd better be some European newspapers with enough balls to print them. Die Welt I'm looking at you.0
The sad thing is Iran does display anti-semitism and the hypocrisy of this predjudice at the same time as bemoaning anti-Islam prejudice really is lost on them. And they wonder why there is an issue with them wanting nuclear power whilst their leader spouts his crap about wiping Israel off the map. Israel didn't even have anything to do with this cartoon rubbish. Afaik there were no reprints there.
Agent Monkeysee on 8/2/2006 at 20:17
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I'm looking forward to seeing these cartoons because I really want to see if any of them can be edgy and dark but funny at the same time.
They won't be. It'll be the same anti-Zionist crap arab papers print everyday. The kind of people that would submit entries are the same people that believe Jews actually control the world through central banking and that the West is one big conspiracy to keep Israel around.
edit: Jyllands-Posten is going to reprint the Iranian cartoons (
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060208/ca_pr_on_wo/prophet_drawings_holocaust)
SubJeff on 8/2/2006 at 20:57
Well at least they're not far off :p
I hope you're wrong though. I suspect, strongly, that you hit it on the nose though.
I don't know where they get the idea that Jews control central banking. Have they not seen Dubia?
Uncia on 8/2/2006 at 22:33
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
Iran has picked on one area where free speech is limited - big deal.
And 'Europe' picked on the area that
they consider free speech should be limited at. The justification behind it doesn't really matter when you're using something as broad as "free speech!" as your justification.
SubJeff on 8/2/2006 at 22:41
Yes Uncia, they have done that.
But laws differ in different countries and this is generally accepted. If you go to a country that has the death penalty for murder and murder someone you can't really complain on the basis that your home country would never do such a thing. In Iran they could put a picture of some Arfican head of state they don't like with "Stupid N*gger" as the headline and no one would say or do anything there. Do it in the UK and you know what would happen. And I'm talking about the response from the law, not from the public.
We don't always agree with each other on the differences but they are there. And if part of someone elses society includes values you disagree with you can help to change it politically or do nothing. Gnashing of teeth and threatening violence or contrary behaviour as a response doesn't really achieve anything usually.
Uncia on 8/2/2006 at 23:35
Yes, but it's not the Iranian paper that burned down the embassies, they're just reacting to European papers going "it's free speech!".
tungsten on 9/2/2006 at 01:50
It boils down to: we have different countries with different laws. And we should be thankful for that. Or do you (I'm looking at you, Iranian and you, Danish) want to be under US or Chinese law? Because that's what it would be if we would equalise all the laws on the world.
We have different cultures, different values and different laws. Respect is good and nice, but you can overdo it. It may be insensitive to print those cartoons, but the "response" is a response to something else. It's a pity it hit Denmark, who is probably not very responsible for the real problems.
If it would be a response to the cartoons, then Nestle could not print an ad-campaign saying they're Swiss, not Danish. Their newspapers reprinted the cartoons as well...
Azal on 9/2/2006 at 07:16
I've seen the (
http://blog.newspaperindex.com/2005/12/10/un-to-investigate-jyllands-posten-racism) original twelve images and, to put it simply, they're not very good (even when not viewed as crappy scans).
Despite the apparant intention of the Danish paper, those images are so generic that they could have said, "Oh it's Osama Bin Laden" and most would work just as well*.
As for the extra images, I think (
http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk) the UK's Mediawatch managed to show how crappy they were.
A bloody pig squealing contestant? Enough faux indignation to go on an international hate rallying junket, but too lazy to actually draw anything themselves.
* With the exception of the blackboard one, of course. But it also manages to be the only one that's actually in any way funny, once you see the translation of the message on the blackboard.
Rogue Keeper on 9/2/2006 at 08:59
Quote Posted by TheGreatGodPan
Causing a big hype is one thing, burning down embassies and threatening terrorist attacks, which even Fred Phelps doesn't do, is another.
I'm not trying to defend violent extremists, but do you think it's fair to see all Muslims as terrorists? That caricature is offensive and rude to what many peaceful people hold sacred and untouchable. As much as that.
Quote:
And I beg to differ on your Judaism-is-out-of-bounds comment. There are a lot of jews in comedy, and in-your-face-comedy at that and a lot of that comedy makes light of their religion and/or people. Mel Brooks' 15 commandments seem like a larger dig at a religion than the cartoons, except for the ones that reference violence on the part of muslims.
Just try to put some cartoon making ass out of Holocaust on a frontpage of a prominent western magazine. We have freedom of speech and thought afterall, don't we?
Quote:
The real reason you don't see too many cartoons associating jews with violence outside of the middle east is because they're less violent than the bulk of the population.
Or it's because the violence of Israel has more "civilized" form, yes? They have army wearing nice uniforms, missiles, nukes, and all that shiny military hi-tech.
If the western society really thinks it's so civilizationally superior, I think it should know how to do everything much wiser. If we know that there are lots of primitive Muslim extremists, we should also know that such hard-edged joke aimed at them will, in the end, turn against us.
But noooo! First we make an offense, which only we understand as a joke, then we cry and moan that Muslim extremists are burning flags, embassies, promote Jihad. Very smart of us. Just go ahead, offense them, then pull back and complain - "See, we told you they are ANIMALS!!! Teh cartoon was right, Muhammad a terrorist!" How stupid and immature of allegedly "civilizationally superior" Euro-America.
I've heard that Taliban offers 100kg of gold to person who sends that cartoonist to Gehenna.
Wtf, I need a new flat, not gold!!??
