Starrfall on 5/2/2006 at 19:00
One of the things I find really surprising is that papers in other countries keep printing the cartoons, after there's been rioting and shit elsewhere and this has clearly become a bigger deal than it was when it started.
Then the editors talk about how it's solidarity in support of the free press and it's total bullshit. I enjoy freedom of expression, but that doesn't mean I go around drawing cartoons depicting Martin Luther King as a gorilla angry at being in a zoo or something. Just because you can speak freely doesn't mean you have to take the Fred Phelps road and be a giant diseased cock about it.
Edit: now even more applicable thanks to SE's link. Just stop being jerks, you jerks.
ignatios on 5/2/2006 at 19:33
Fuck yes Starreh, that's my feeling. It's basically turned into a lot of press taking a bit stick and poking a big seething mass of hatred that was out-of-hand to begin with.
Quote Posted by Starrfall
Just because you can speak freely doesn't mean you have to take the Fred Phelps road and be a giant diseased cock about it.
<3
WingedKagouti on 5/2/2006 at 19:36
Quote Posted by Starrfall
One of the things I find really surprising is that papers in other countries keep printing the cartoons,
after there's been rioting and shit elsewhere and this has clearly become a bigger deal than it was when it started.
Depends. If the Middle Eastern nations see that stuff like that is accepted everywhere
except in their countries then there's a chance they will cool down a bit. Then again, it might cause them to feel attacked from all sides instead.
RarRar on 5/2/2006 at 19:45
Quote:
I'm rather disappointed at the lame response from moderate muslim leaders, who at a time like this should be doing their utmost to keep things civil. Meanwhile, extremists are driving the masses to further their agenda of conflict with the west
If Islam is the religion of peace, where were all the protests, burning and riots when some terrorist attack was carried out in the name of Allah? To me that seems like the ultimate blasphemy. Maybe it's the petty side of me, but I look at all of this and smile. It's a big fat mirror on their own screwed up society and I hope they like what they see.
Stitch on 5/2/2006 at 19:50
Quote Posted by ignatios
Fuck yes Starreh, that's my feeling. It's basically turned into a lot of press taking a bit stick and poking a big seething mass of hatred that was out-of-hand to begin with.
Actually, while I more or less agree, I think that's a pretty big distraction to the main issue: EMBASSIES ARE BEING BURNED OVER CARTOONS
Let's also mention that these retarded riots have ensured that every last person on this planet will see these comics.
Seeker on 5/2/2006 at 20:02
Quote Posted by RarRar
Maybe it's the petty side of me, but I look at all of this and smile. It's a big fat mirror on their own screwed up society and I hope they like what they see.
We've had worse over football.
Headphones on 5/2/2006 at 22:14
Quote Posted by Paz
That link also seems to confirm that merely producing 'an image of Muhammed' probably isn't going to cause anyone much concern. Or, at least, has not in the past. You have to make him look a bit of a tit before people are upset.
Traditionally, Islamic art has been aniconic. So any images of Allah/Muhammad are (were?) basically taboo. I'm talking about early caliphates here (sorry, I'm dreadfully out of date) but it certainly used to be the case that even a respectful depiction of A/M was a big nono.
The current story leading all news programmes in the UK is that a lot of the Danish embassy protesters might be prosecuted for inciting violence and basically threatening to kill people etc. It's all getting a bit unpleasant :(.
Carbon_Warrior on 5/2/2006 at 22:40
Quote Posted by Headphones
Traditionally, Islamic art has been aniconic. So any images of Allah/Muhammad are (were?) basically taboo. I'm talking about early caliphates here (sorry, I'm dreadfully out of date) but it certainly used to be the case that even a respectful depiction of A/M was a big nono.
Not really. Depicting Muhammad was ok if done respectfully, though his face was generally left blank. Depicting Allah, on the other hand, was serious blasphemy. Apparently, Islam took this from Judaism, which also forbids depicting God (and in theory, all living beings).
But I read something interesting in my newspaper today: in the 19th century, a cartoon depicting Mary Magdalene masturbating to cross with a dildo attached to it (by the famous Belgian artist Félicien Rops), caused street protests throughout Belgium. No buildings were burnt to the ground, but we shouldn't forget that even a hundred years ago laughing with Jesus or God wasn't tolerated in a lot of Western countries (as opposed to laughing with their representatives on Earth, which was widespread).
It's not been that long since we crawled out of that intolerant religious marsh. :erg:
Gingerbread Man on 6/2/2006 at 00:59
That's more blatantly offensive. The Christian world hasn't been as concerned with "any depiction whatsoever" since the Iconoclasm.
Oddly enough, there is nothing in the Shari'ah that directly prohibits artistic representations of Mohammed. Islam has, in general, traditionally been very opposed to the depiction of
any human form in art (which is one of the reasons Islamic art evolved in the directions it did), but the idea of painting an image of Mohammed is more specifically an implication and a conclusion based on arguments of possible idolatry.
Quote Posted by Abdullah Rahim
Human beings tend to give false attributes and values to things. People like tangible things and this sometimes impels to try changing intangible religious concepts to tangible ones. It is not difficult to imagine how people might go to extremes in perceiving a painting of the Prophet; assuming religious values for the painting and attributing false things to it, behaving towards it as an holy object and seeking cures or answers to prayers from it. In fact, there might not be even any need for the imagination, examples of such behaviour can be found in many societies (including in some of the Muslim communities).
Accordingly, it is better to avoid painting these pictures because of the possible undesired consequences among people. However, painting them per se is not prohibited by the Shari`ah.
Meanwhile, back on the farm, people are lined up for miles to see the amazing grilled-cheese sandwich with the image of the blessed virgin Mary on it. Because it, like, cures blindness, you know.
